The page alone uses 18-20 kb if it is blank. Oh, and I've never seen a single spelling error in your stories that I can remember.

I don't have Word, I only have "Works for Windows" - the free Microsoft stuff that comes built on a storebought PC. It is being saved as .wps

Ugh, I hate how windows programs that should be standard are ridiculously expensive. Cause every student can shell out over a hundred euro's casually.


Anyhow, the forum has a word counter as well, right below the block where you write your post. It isn't the most convenient thing to use, but it is there.


Ps: I aim for roughly 2000 words apiece.

Pps: I just checked. The 'word counter' counts the individual characters, not the words. So forget everything I said.

Another possibility is Open Office- which is freeware.

As to length, I generally aim for 1500-2000 words, which=3-4 pages single-spaced.

Mine counts both!

http://www.wordcountertool.com/

Gave it a whirl. - my next section comes in at 1951 words, as long as I don't add anything before next Monday!

I hope I helped :]

Just out of interest I counted up the words in the last 3 parts I wrote - ("Rescue" 1, 2, 3) - which I had split into 3 natural breaks, because of it's length:
1 - 1,848
2 - 1,609
3 - 5,753

The total of all of the parts of the story I'm currently on is approx. 16,830 split over 7 parts, thus far...
Get in!

Not that I'm planning on reducing the wordcount you understand, the story will be as long as it needs to be, and it has enough natural breaks in it; but it's interesting nevertheless, as I tend not to count - it is what it is, if you see what I mean - I do read everything and if I start drifting then I'll rewrite to refocus or trim it or try and look at the pacing.
What's been challenging at the moment is that some of parts I've written have been somewhat slower paced and certainly longer than I've been used to writing, or felt used to writing, so it's been an experience; especially since in the past I've been more comfortable with flash fiction or vignettes that moved along faster.
Writing longer more contiguous pieces does really allow you to "settle in" and play about with ideas though, I've found; really get to grips with the subject matter - so that's been good...
...We'll see what happens, though I've a pretty good idea as I've handwritten most of the rest already...

Concerning length I tend to write in the way I prefer to read. Shorter segments for dense, introspective parts and longer for scenes with multiple characters and a lot of dialog. I also like short scenes to be presented together when one fits or sets up the mood of the other. I’ll generally warn folks when one of my posts nears 3,000 words or contains less than a full scene. That way readers can plan to take a look later when time permits or just go ahead and skip to the parts that they might find interesting.

When reading I like to take in the whole scene at once, so sometimes I’ll wait until I can read two (or more) updates together. While it may cause me to delay until I have time, I find it’s much more satisfying to read complete scenes as they were intended rather than broken into more forum-friendly bites. Still, keeping posts shorter accommodates more readers.

With my current chapter I’ve found myself writing to the format as much as to the story. Growing pains, I suppose. Of course all of that material gets tossed out as it’s not really worth posting.

So would you say that you personally at least would rather have say, a 4,000 word post if it meant that a scene was not broken in half? Rather than having it divided into a two, 2,000 word posts?

I bring it up because I tend to feel the same way, though I do not put off reading until the entire scene is up. But when a scene carries emotional weight (or at least I hope it does! ) I have always thought that breaking it up also breaks the mood. So for important scenes that are long, I have just posted the entire thing, word count be darned. The first scene in Dibella's Dance was like that. I just counted it at 3.5k words. But given that it was Teresa's first attempt to seduce someone (well, she thought she was trying to ), and her first time having sex, I felt it was a true landmark moment. I still remember my first time, though I don't remember the second, or the twentieth, etc...

I do post a warning that it will be a long episode though. As you said, that gives people time to wait for some time when they have more time. (how many times can I say time in a sentence? ). I typically just flip through a new post when I see it just to roughly gauge how long it is before I sit down to read. That is why I might not post a reply for some time after first seeing it.

My problem arises from the way I'm doing this. I have a Wordpad .rtf file that's multiple posts long. I use Wordpad, as its capabilities do not exceed those of the text-box here. The bottom of the file is being worked on, while the part at the top has pretty well settled down and is ready to post. So I snip off a coherent chunk from the top and post it. If I remember to save it separately first, I get an idea of how big it is, and can re-consider whether it's too big. If I forget, sometimes I splurge out too much.

The chunk that's posted is removed from the file and saved (and these days converted to html and posted on my own site) but I haven't developed the habit of always doing that first. Then it's deleted off the top of the "assembly line" file. What happens is that my perception of the size of the piece I'm taking off the top is being influenced by the total size of the file, so if I've got a large amount in the pipeline, I'm likely to take too big a chunk to post.

And in my case, that's mostly a reflection of how well the mod-building is going, with an overlay of how much dialog the current quest is using. If I get hung up building a new mesh, for example, my writing slows down, but once I'm past that, I'll have a bunch of new action to write about, and the file will grow rapidly again, and make an oversized post more likely.

What I do when I break up a chapter into individual episodes is put a whole pile of spaces between each episode I plan to post. Here is an example. Then I select each, get the word count, and adjust my breaking points if needed. Granted I have an easier time since I use Word, and it gives me the word count once I highlight an area of text. But you could copy a prospective area and paste it into Elisabeth's link, and still adjust here or there. Just don't cut anything out.

I don't know about grits, but I would rather read a longer post than a longer post split into shorter posts, if that post was relating events in a single scene/contiguous piece of drama. If a post is really long and there's a way of splitting it at a natural break, and/or providing a cliffhanger, so to speak, then that's fair enough - (gods know I've done enough) - but if its not appropriate then I think that the post should be left as one, regardless of length.

Yes when the scene as a whole builds tension or has a subtle mood shift that gets lost in the pieces. Also yes when the writer is posting only once per week or less often. The fractured scenes with a week or more in between are often better (to me) as a whole, but big posts every two to three days make it difficult to keep up. Of course some scenes are fine in multiple parts.

I read most of Teresa’s story on your website, so the scenes flowed with no indication of where you split them up for posting. It felt different once I caught up and started reading it as episodes. That’s when I started examining how I read stories here and what sorts of cues were getting missed in mine.

One thing that I like about trying to wedge a whole scene into 2,000 words or less is that shorter posts encourage brutal editing. The adverbs are the first to go.

Something I have noticed I am doing with Seven, that I never really consciously thought of before, is what you alluded to about writing for the format. I find I am writing shorter scenes - in the 1-2k word length now - than I used to. Where before I tended to write bigger scenes, or multiple scenes that flowed together with little linking paragraphs. Now I seem to be mostly doing away with the linkages, and just ending the scene, then starting a new one so that it will better fit into a easily readable post.

As a general rule of thumb, writing both for the forum, a work I'm aiming to publish and back in my days when I wrote on FF.net, I would write a minimum of 2,000 words per chapter, and a maximum of 5,000; it's a length I personally enjoy reading and I feel strikes a good middle ground between giving a reader a good amount of content to sink their teeth into and not wearying them with too much to read. If I hit a natural break point, though, I may stop a chapter early; in my current original fiction project I have a chapter that's only 1,700 words. I cut it off there as it was an action-based one and the action had finished; keeping on with the next scene just would have just made the pacing go off.

The only exception I really had to this is my Conclave of Princes story, where I decided I'd go for a bite-sized chunks series of linked vignettes, so generally have each part between 900 and 1,100 words.





Also, this is completely different from the current subject and only tangentially relevant to this thread, but it seems the best place to ask:

How do you guys go about doing comments on other people's stories? Only I'm finding them so difficult to write nowadays that I've basically given up and have just become a lurker on the fanfic boards; I want to actually say something meaningful and useful and something that's more than just 'good job' or a summary of events in the chapter, but I find it insanely difficult to do that by a chapter-by-chapter basis.

What I do when I read is open up a second window to comment in. Then as I see things I particularly liked/thought was original/well-done, I will write a sentence or two to comment about it. Often I copy and paste the text from the story. Sometimes it is something as simple as the particular words the writer chose to use in order to "paint a picture" - so to speak. Other times it is an observation about the characters, or the overall tone of the piece. For example, in Cardonaccum, h.e.r. chose to make her main character a person with a stutter which I particularly liked, so I commented about that.

That would be a problem for me. I have multiple working files and one big one for posted chapters. I pull the material out of the huge outline file when I'm getting close enough to organize it, then put it in files according to what I predict will be the chapter segments. They usually split and accumulate as the writing adds up. Then I cut (way) back down to what should fit into posts. I've tried just writing it all out as a full chapter and then splitting it, but I've dumped too many entire chapters that way. I cut too far until there's no heart left in it. Then it's time for a do-over.

Wow, I'm super simplistic. I have everything in one spot, never make notes, and don't change anything unless my computer decides to erase my work.

I'm like that, really. I might have a mind map or two outlining characters and a rough plot outline, but that's about it. Otherwise I just generally write what I think is good when I can and post it up as I write it.

Same here. I mean I'll edit when I re-read the piece, but everything is 99% original work.

That's awesome. What do you do when you get an idea that fits way ahead of where you are in your writing? Do you just remember it?

I keep it in my head and think about how I can make that happen.

Now, I WILL be honest, the final chapter in Kayla's story is nearly finished. That's the only time I'll ever write ahead, is the final chapter.

What I do is make a separate word doc for each chapter I write. Then I put in spaces to break it up into individual post-sized pieces. I keep a separate text file for my plot notes. Plus another text file for character notes. Plus another text file for world notes. I also back up all my writing files every day on a thumb drive. Just to be safe.

Here is an example of my plot outline for chapter 1 of Seven


I do not always stick to my outlines though. Sometimes when I am writing I get better ideas and add them spontaneously. Or I decide that something does not work and drop it. For example, Nashira was originally going to be a dual sword user, but I changed her to use a single sword and made Valens the two-sword guy instead. It just felt more right. Also the entire root system traveling at the end of the chapter was never in my outline. I just decided to throw that in while I was writing that part.

That seems like a lot of extra work, Subrosa.

Wow. Maybe I'm just lazy, lol

Everyone does it differently. My memory is crap, so if I have an idea I need to write it down, otherwise I will forget it. So I write down just about everything I think of. Even things that never make it into the story. In some cases I will even write down dialogue in my outlines.

It DOES seem to work differently for everyone. Which is fine

On installment length, I've been going upwards - I used to try for installments of around 1.1-1.5k words, but am now more in the 1.5-2.5k area. I've noticed that I've been choosing breaking points mainly based on length, which has lately meant breaking in places that really aren't ideal, and am trying to change that. My actual chapters are for posting on fanfiction.net or AO3, and are generally in the 8-13k length - I like long chapters!

Re: notes... this is actually a bugbear of mine. I basically keep EVERYTHING in my head and have since I started. I wanted to stop doing this (I'm prone to wandering off and not really thinking about Adryn for months on end which isn't conducive to remembering some of the details), and started forcing myself to keep notes... but then it turned out that writing notes is an A+ way to procrastinate from actual writing. Moreover, almost everything about Adryn's story is basically in a continual state of evolution as I think about it and refine it or as I write and find things go in surprising ways, so generally whenever I read my notes I go "ugh, this is outdated, that's outdated, that's outdated...". I'd have to update them almost constantly, which, well, see above re: procrastination.

Honestly, although I have been trying and writing them is fun (...procrastination) I'm not sure it makes sense for me to keep detailed notes and outlines. Especially because I suspect the things I forget are often the things I wasn't so attached to or kind of meh about, and this means that the next time I come back to Adryn's story I am starting with a clean slate in that respect and able to start over.

Although there are a few things which are a lot of detail and hard for me to remember properly, where the notes do really help. Lists, particularly! Among others, my notes folder contains:
- a table of birthsigns for all the characters who play much of a role
- a list of settlements on Vvardenfell and whether I've decided they were created before or after it was opened for settlement
- a timeline with e.g. birth dates and the like
- a document trying to figure out the phonology of the Dwemer language so I can come up with realistic-sounding names and words later on.
and I'd like to sit down and work out currency and make a list of how expensive what things are in Adryn's world at some point, but I've kept putting it off.

I would like to ask about the theme of a story. How dark is too dark? Should one try to add humor in it or will it be too overwhelming? I ask this because those who read my stories and my characters know that I don't have good or bad characters, but mostly "human" and morally "grey" characters. My tales are often melancholy(atrocities, violence, murder).

I know we have rules in the forum, and I just wanted to write down what is acceptable here in the forums and how far I can go? Note that I am not speaking of simple sexual scenes between two characters in love. I meant some more intense and horrible scenes like rape, etc. In fact, I stopped writing one of my stories because I didn't think the idea of two characters having an incestous relationship would be something appealing to readers. Note that such things I won't get into tremendous detail.

I'd like to point out that it isn't something I take extreme pleasure in writing due to a warped mind. But I wanted to be a bit more mature in my stories and I intent to not shy away from the cruel realities of our world or Tamriel's world which is twice as bad.

If anyone has read George R. R. Martin's work, they would know exactly what I am talking about.

So, my question is, how much is too much? I don't want to write something that will scare the majority of the readers away. I understand some people with weaker stomachs or having their own limits to what is acceptable in paper(or in a forum post) will inevitably stop reading just because of that reason alone. But so far I haven't come across anything that's overwhelmingly dark. I want to be cautious before I know what I'm getting into.

I remember Rumpleteasza writing something that passed between Helseth and Morgiah that I was sure was a description of incest. Foxy saw it the same way I did, so we both made complete asses of ourselves making Morgiah and Helseth jokes - thereby shocking Rumple, who meant no such thing in her writing of that scene, ROFL !!! Oh well.

I know a few things you have mentioned above that would offend many, and you do have to remember that this site has minors on board. We really don't need for this place to become one their parents won't let them come to.

I would suggest PM'ing any scenes you are concerned about to a Mod either here or at Bethsoft - if it passes the Mod's OKAY, then print it.

First like mALX said, if you are in doubt PM your material to a moderator.

There’s a reason the forum has a rating. Many readers who are drawn here simply don’t want to read graphic sex and violence, which includes graphic sexual violence. But you’re asking two different questions about themes and content (the part that’s actually in the text, not just inferred by the reader). Dark themes don’t have to be expressed as pornography any more than love stories do.

I think you need to be very careful what you depict in actual scenes when you tackle potentially offensive material. Ask yourself what you’re trying to accomplish with the character who rapes or eats children. There are lots of ways you can convey that information about them without giving a graphic description of the acts in your story. Small bones and baby shoes in a pile of vampire debris, for example. Trust your readers to figure out what that means.

The issue I see with having your main characters engage in potentially offensive behavior is that you have to provide an equally compelling reason why people should invest their reading time in them. I think of grey characters as being complicated in their own context, not just bad by my values but good by theirs. So for example for me to care about incestuous siblings they would need to be interesting in spite of the incest, not just because of it.

Grits has a good point. It doesn't have to be the focal point ofthe story, but if tthat's what you're aiming for, incestuous love stories, or whatever, then add a disclaimer in each chapter it happens in.

Very good points in this response. There was a fic on this forum whose main character was the guy with his mother's head in his house. Chapter one had his mental condition degrading to madness. By chapter two there was nothing redeeming enough in the story to hold my interest and I backed off reading any more of it. (and you know how open minded I am).

Like Grits said, the stronger the content the less you should describe it graphically or otherwise/the less detail you should use. Vera's bone crunching doesn't bother me (unless I'm eating), but if she was crunching children it might. Raven and Draken were interesting characters and if there was a point to their incest (for example to keep from killing while they mate they must mate one of their own kind, etc) - then I don't think it would be as offensive as it might if they were just doing it out of lust.

(Example: In the movie "Cat People" - whenever the cat people mated they would transform into leopards and had to kill to turn back to humans. The only ones they could mate without transforming were their own kind - which weren't all that easy to find. So many of them became incestuous).

If your characters are chomping babies/raping/incestuous/etc - I don't call this gray areas. These are black areas.

There is a spectrum here that the extreme ends (like you were describing) can't be called gray, Baby chomping/rape/and incest without cause = these are at the extreme end of the spectrum. These are black. To gray up the character you would have to show some redeeming value to them imho. (have them counter that black with a few good qualities that make the reader think - he can't be all that bad if he does X) type thing.

Thanks, Grits! Though I think I may not have beem clear. Certain of my characters will engage in offensive behavior, but of course, I always try to provide a compelling reason to do so, if the offensive in this contect includes murder. Rape is not and cannot be justified. The question itself wasn't around my protagonists but rather, the opposite. I even made a post about it last night.

Don't worry. I know how to treat my main folks.



Thanks, too, mALX. I'll make it clear that none of my protagonists will be involved in raping at all. The reason I asked is because I have a few characters, prisoners and barbarians, who will rape and pillage and murder for no justified reason. I mentioned one such character in the "Rate Your Villains" thread and i specifically mentioned he's not a character that can be sympathized with. He's not even a protagonist, which is the reason why I won't bother to try and make an excuse as to why raping women and young girls is okay.

My lycanthropic and disease-altered characters are grey. They both have "good" qualities and "bad" qualities. I try to make them as human as possible despite what else happens. Can't say the same for my vampiric characters.

But the main issue here that I needed help was the content being posted, not so much of my characters engaging in such actions(frankly, I never, ever, planned for Lycus or Vera to go around raping people. Ever). The idea was for the main antagonists and general barbarians and outlaws and murderers like our real world history and present day. That was my question, only. How much is too much? Not "Will my characters be hated for this?"

Terribly sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Actually, I didn't picture either Vera or Kraven doing any of those things, but the baby eating - I know Draken and Raven are prone to it already and you have handled those scenes perfectly - describing her lust for the taste without any examples of her actually doing it (just skulking outside a window). The message was clear to the reader, we all knew what Raven was doing outside that window; but no one was giving the image of a baby crying while Raven attacks - you handled it extremely well.

Your vampire seduction scenes were also handled extremely well. Look to those strong scenes you yourself have written for guidence - there wasn't too much detail, just enough that we knew what was happening and our imaginations filled in the details. You took us into Draken's mind rather than his actions (but we all knew what his actions were at that moment).


As you know, Malan had a history of raping virgins in my story. It was never detailed on even one of those young girls; and Malan erased their memories of the event so they had no trauma (but we know it still happened).

There is one scene that is described (the scene where Malan takes Evangeline without her knowledge and permission) - where we learn he puts them under spell so they more or less sleep through it (like the Kayla and Draken scene in the RP).

Afterward Malan healed the wound/erased her memory. (by inference that scene lets the reader know how he was actually taking all those virgins, putting them under spell and erasing their minds of the event)


The only description of how he took those other virgins is given in his scene where he takes Maxical's virginity; (except Malan has Maxical's permission in that instance, and it is seen through her eyes only).

But in that same scene with Maxical we also learn he was using their virgin blood as a bait for vampire prisoners to get them to swear their souls away; another thing he was doing with those virgin girls that no one knew about.

The inference is that everything Maxical went through with Malan is what all those other virgins went through - but it was only described the one time when it happened to Maxical (where he had permission to be there).


The reason I did it that way - I didn't want to glorify or sexualize the act of rape (1); and (2) describing the virgin blood tease on prisoners - imho the number of times descriptions and details are given for any incidents that are gory/controversial/shocking/sexual/etc is once. Beyond that - ad nauseum - dragging the reader through the details over and over again - the impact is lost and the value/merit of it feels overtold to the reader.


Whenever you are considering iffy material at all, run it by a mod first. If it is borderline, they will usually tell you to post it (but be ready to remove it if there is a complaint).

You're always welcome to pm me if you're in doubt! I'm certainly old enough to be able to judge, I promise! It has been done before, IThere was this guy who pm-ed me quite a lot about his story...and it was solved satisfactory for both parties!

The whole "How dark is too dark" and related issues thing is something that I have run up against on numerous occasions, where I've needed to fairly carefully go over what I've written before posting.
Niamh's world is a very dark one and she is what/who she is - if you catch my drift. I do write in a gritty and often explicit way and I've never tried to hide that.

That said, it is important to be aware of what you are posting and where and also to write in such a way that you strike a balance between a desire to be "real" and to push the envelope and the audience's ability to absorb what you've written and still continue to want to read it.
Do I achieve that? To be honest I have no idea but I have enough feedback from different places to know I must be doing something right!

I have found that there are things that I can post on this site that I would not feel that I could get away with posting on the Other Site, but that said, I have a blog as well so anything that would not fit on either basically goes on there with a link on the forum side so people have a choice.
An upcoming section I have on the boil will have 2 versions one for here and another, containing a slightly more "gritty" set of descriptions, on the blog - that's not because its got anything sexually explicit in it or what have you but simply because I don't feel that some aspects of it are appropriate for a forum with this rating.
(Like the difference between a 15 rated movie and the director's cut!)

I guess it comes down to the fact that I would rather put something on here that was tempered and give people the option to read the unexpurgated version elsewhere should they wish than exercise my natural inclination to just chuck everything down regardless and have the post removed!
After all, I may prefer to write mature fiction for adults, but this isn't a mature-rated forum so one has to make concessions...

Anyway, that's my 10 pence!

Honestly, so do I!...so do I!

Me, too!

Me three...er, four!

Question for all you writers. What is your limit on character perspectives in a single story? For example, I currently have five in a single story, but I do plan on adding one more. Is six character perspectives too much? I know some people pulled it off, though they were famous writers. To get the story across, it is something I wanted to do but I want to know your opinions.

That's a good question. At first, I was going to say "As many as you want". I thought of Stephen King's The Stand, which told the story of many different people from across the nation passing through many different adventures, that eventually led them all to the same place. Then I looked at your question more literally. Different character perspectives would imply that you would be writing in first person for each character. That would certainly be more challenging. Instead of simply narrating, you would be "living" the events through the eyes of each character. This could get confusing to the reader.

All of that said, I guess there is no real limit to the amount of characters, as long as a character switch is appropriately prefaced so the the reader doesn't become lost. I certainly would not try to change the perspective between characters in the same chapter.

I don't know if that helps, but that would be my two Septims worth...

I’m going to answer as a reader, since I’m sure there are rules about these things that I haven’t learned yet.

I would say keep it within a single character per post if you can, and have a good reason to switch between perspectives. For example in SubRosa’s Seven she had one POV character knocked unconscious in the middle of a fight, then picked up with a different POV character. The jolt of switching POV characters worked beautifully to reflect the action in the story. Otherwise just make sure you’ve given the reader enough time to get to know a new POV character from the inside before you switch again.

I assume you’re talking about using third person rather than first. As a reader I would find switching between different characters’ first-person perspectives very jarring. Also with having a few days between posts here rather than a book where you read long sections at once I think you can get away with more frequent switches. It’s really up to you what you want to do with your writing.

As a reader I much prefer different third-person limited views like you’re suggesting over a third-person omniscient approach. I want to know about the characters more than about what happens, and staying within a character’s viewpoint gets that across.

So to answer the question I’m saying I don’t think there’s a number limit so much as an approach that makes the transitions work for the reader.



edit: dreadful spelling

I would generally urge limiting the perspective to no more than one character in a given episode.

Readers don't have to know everything, and limiting the number of perspectives is a simple, easy and extremely effective method of keeping what the reader knows to the same as the primary character. Built-in mystery, if you will.

If you hop among several perspectives, you might as well consider the omniscient narrator approach.

I've never found it necessary to change perspectives from my primary character - ever. In fact, I relish the challenges and limitations that is the price for maintaining a full-on intimate perspective from one character - complete with the same gaps in knowledge that they have. That said, I readily admit there are writers who I have seen change perspectives to excellent effect. But these writers also do so sparringly and, when they do so, it is for a full scene.

SubRosa has said that if you are going to change perspective, it will jar the reader - so make darn sure that what you have to present from the new perspective is both necessary and significant enough to warrant the price. Good advice I think.

Edit: In rereading my comments here, I don't mean to sound discouraging. I am reminded that the reason we all write here is to have fun. While I do harbor strong feelings about what is best for my own writing, DE, I assure you (and others) that when I read, my primary interest is in trying to ferret out what the writer is trying to accomplish, then support their objectives. It is worth stating and remembering that this is all hobby/fanfic, and having fun is job one.

I am pretty much with everyone else. I prefer keeping it to one, but sometimes that is not possible, especially when dealing with stories whose focus is on a big event. For example in Seven I have tried to keep the pov with Aela wherever possible. But there have been a few times where she was not around to witness events, yet I wanted the reader to see those things. So I had to change povs.

As others have said, changing povs can be difficult for the reader. So make sure it is worth it when you do. Be sure that you are showing them something that matters. Also try to make sure that being right there in the moment carries some emotional weight to it. If it does not, then you might just as well have a minor character relate it to your main character after the fact: "Oh by the way, I found this thing by the whatchamacallit, by the stuff." is not worth a pov change. But "I found this whatchamacallit and was attacked by a Sith Lord and barely made it out of there alive." is definitely worth changing pov for.

Besides making sure the pov change happens in a new scene, try to work things into the narrative that make it clear who the new pov character is right off the bat. Making the first word be their name is a great start. I began a scene from Do'Sakhar's pov with the following:

Do'Sakhar took a break from planting punji stakes in the ditch surrounding the hamlet. He climbed the dirt wall of the dry moat on hands and feet, frequently slipping in the loose soil. But once he had reached the top, the Khajiit easily scampered over the crenellated wall.

So everyone would know right off the bat who the new pov character was.

Thanks everyone for the response. I actually meant different characters and not just the perspective of a main character. For example, one character has their own chapter in their point of view. That's what I truly meant but I still understand the concern and opinions of switching between third person and second person. As Grits said, it can be jarring. I agree, if it is abused often.

The narrative change can be after a while, but I guess the writer has to make it pay off once the readers gets to see the character's first realization of what he's gotten himself into. My plan with the first person narrative is to change things a bit. Key parts it will change to second-person perspective, and makes both the action and non-action events highly psychological(unlike my previous works). I use the second-person narrative when describing the main character's emotions ("The first light of the moon gives you pain" "Now you realize you are so far less now than what you were, but yet so much more, you are as a painter gone blind, a bard gone mute, an acrobatic gone lame") and when introducing key figures with simple declarative statements ("This is Shavaash", "This is how it feels to be Kraven Desselius."

From other sources and help, I was told that these literary devices would work better at key points in the story. But ultimately my main concern here was the use of different characters in a single story, not so much as a single episode, which are often devoted to a single individual at each given moment.





Thanks! I see! That was my main concern here. I want plenty of things to remain a mystery in my story, and I guess limiting characters will do just nicely.

Okay, so maybe y'all can help with this. I seem to have five major plot points in my head and issues with how to implement them. They all benefit and are relevant to the story.

My problem is, is sometimes I'll have an entire chapter done, and go "Oh man, THIS is much better!" But it doesn't explain a lot of the stuff that goes on, and because I just thought about it, it's never mentioned anywhere else in the story so it will seem like it's coming out from left field.

My thought is to either put it in anyways and just explain it later, or erase the whole chapter and work it in via flashbacks or a different POV. And I'm sort of tired being everywhere all at once, but the planning of this final chapter is KILLING ME. I really honestly just want to WRITE, and for a bit I did, but then I went off on a tangent and now the plot is really skewed.

And before you suggest it, I canNOT keep tabs on every detail of the story. I can't manage my own life, much less micromanage the lives of my characters. Once I get my book started, I'll have files on each character and such but as for my fanfic, I can't dedicate my time to that quite yet.

How can I have a MODERATE amount of control on what I put in my story? Do you ever just take something and stick it in later, or use it in a different story?

My first thought is what you do not want to hear. Dedicate more time to working on your outline of plot points. It is true that this is just a fan fiction, just hobby writing. But this is the place to practice your writing and form good habits for later when you are doing it for a living.

None of this means you have to plan out every little detail of everything that happens in the story, or every event in every character's history. It just means have a clear map of where you are going. You can always leave room to adapt and add new ideas that come to you a year or more after you made your outline. I often find that once I am actually writing a chapter, things come to me that I never thought of while I worked on the outline. For example, Ungarion and Do'Sakhar constantly verbally sniping at one another in Seven was never part of the plan. It just came out that way in my first draft of their initial meeting. Because of that my outlines are very general, only covering the major plot points that have to happen in order to get the story from Point A to Point B.

It is hard to give any specific advice without knowing the specifics of what you are working on (which obviously you do not want to spill before the story is in pixels!). So just speaking in generalities:

Feel free to use the edit button and go back and change things in your fan fic. Just keep them small things that do not completely change the story. It was not until about halfway through the TF that I decided that Teresa learned her Healing and Flare spells from Raminus Polus. It happened in a chapter I wrote that was mostly a flashback to how Teresa met Methredhel. Events in the flashback showed me that Raminus was the obvious guy to have been her first teacher. So after writing that, I went back to a few early chapters from a year before and edited that little factoid in. I also put a little note in the post telling the readers I had done that to keep it consistent. So it is nothing that changes the actual story, just a little tidbit that adds a more depth.

I also advise you to make use of flashbacks! They are an excellent way to conveying small things that are relevant to current events. Especially things that do not warrant an entire chapter of their own placed in chronological order. Haute makes excellent use of flashbacks in Old Habits Die Hard to gradually reveal the background and history of her protagonist. Just as I did in my flashback with Methredhel and Teresa to give their relationship more depth. Stories do not have be sequential. Jump around as much as you like.

Also, don't be afraid to turn your final chapter into two or three final chapters. You don't have to squeeze it all into one. Take your time, show us as much of the story as you feel deserves to be told. If that means writing five more chapters go ahead. Sometimes a story can have a snowball effect, picking up more material as it goes. That is a good thing IMHO, as it means your creative juices are flowing.

The reason I said no micromanaging is because I feel like it's too much time into a story that I don't have. I don't want to spend six months on the final chapter (And it's been about two already) but the general plot thing is a good idea. Thanks, Sub :]

Okay, so I have a question, and this seems to be the place to ask, so here goes:

So I'm writing about my current Oblivion character, as much because I like writing as anything else. It's taken the format of a journal, which the character is keeping. The problems I'm having are twofold:

1) It seems it's either going to result in extraordinarily lengthy entries, or I'm going to have to find a way to break them up. For instance after arriving in Chorrol he went straight for the recommendation quest, so between the journey, the city, and the quest it seems more than a person would write in one sitting.

2) There seems to be a degree of focus on conversation, which I don't really know how to reconcile with the idea of it being a journal. Not really sure how to work this.


I'd like to eventually start posting it as a fanfic, but I wanted to make sure I was comfortable with everything before I start posting anything. I'm now rather glad I did. So yeah, any advice on these would be greatly appreciated.