Thanks Acadian, Macole - those trees look great, don't they?

With all the TWMP mods (including Hammerfell) I installed all the main files (latest version only), all the resource files and all the LOD files, that is everything except the patches because I don't need them. The LOD files are really tricky because they are not in a BSA but just files on disk, and you have to install them in the right order because they overwrite what you've got already. But then - people say - you generate new LOD with TES4Edit and everything is fixed! Yeah, right... this has not been my experience. The files in distantLOD folder are overwritten when you generate LOD, and they contain data for trees, objects and some of the water (some? yeah, clear). Then there's texture LOD - some files in Textures/landscapeLOD, and I have not been able to regenerate those successfully with anything. I just get a lot of purple everywhere when I try. But all of those TWMP mods come with land LOD textures, and my mod doesn't change landscapes, so fortunately I don't need to update them. It does make it very important to load the mods in the correct order to get those things overwritten correctly.

Phew... if you are not confused yet, why not?

So, for the record I decided to write up exactly which mods from the TWMP suite I installed and in which order, that's the long list that follows. It is my intention to get Valenwood and Elsweyr working as well, they are not all TWMP, but they were made to work with TWMP, or so I hear. Bear in mind that I haven't explored those areas yet, so I might have to adjust the list later. This is based on this thread on Reddit.

My installation does not start from an empty Oblivion - I already have various mods, some with the dreaded LOD that gets overwritten. Besides, I started with TWMP for Skyrim and installed Elsweyr and Valenwood afterwards - which is the opposite of what they advise on Reddit. I also had my LOD messed up several times while developing my mod, fixed it, messed it up again... So then I decided to reinstall all those TWMP mods again, overwriting everything, but now I've done it in the right order according to Reddit. I have only checked Skyrim and Hammerfell so far, and they are fixed, and Cyrodiil seems to be in order also. So I think this might be a way to go.

EDIT 18 December 2021: I have updated these instructions now that my mod got a new release. Here is the up-to-date page.

Download and Installation

IMPORTANT: download the mods and save them in a safe place because you'll be reusing them a few times! I suggest Data/Downloads. Put each mod in its own folder so you know what's what. It gets confusing very quickly. I download everything first, then go about installing it - this helps to keep track of where you are at.

Installation needs to happen in the order listed below because files get overwritten in the process. Some of the mods also give installation instructions, I tried to take them all into account, but be sure to check them for notes regarding other popular mods that you might have in your game.

Note: I don't use Unique Landscapes, so I didn't download any of those resources. If you do use UL, you will need those files too! Top up your common sense reserves, they will be tested!

Oblivion Script Extender - OBSE - xOBSE
Go to their website and download and install the latest version. TWMP claims to need v21 on its latest mods, but v19 is probably already sufficient.

Under the sign of the dragon - Tamriel Heightmaps
- Tamriel LOD resources
- Tamriel Heightmap v 3.3
- Tr Stirk LOD resources

Under the sign of the dragon - Tamriel Landscape Pack
- BSA
- ESM

Under the sign of the dragon - Tamriel Resource Pack
- ESM ESP
- Full resource pack
The other files here are just the individual parts already contained in the full resource pack, in case you have to re-download (so save it first!).

Elsweyr the Deserts of Anequina
- Main file

Valenwood Improved
- 1020 Full German
- 1020 English translation (replacement ESP with English text)
With TWMP we don't need the ESPs from this mod, only the resources. So why did I download the ESPs as well? No reason. Just for my collection.

TWMP Valenwood Improved
- Main file (the ESP)
- Patch for Elsweyr
We will use this ESP with the resources from the other Valenwood mod. I also downloaded the patch for Elsweyr because I use Elsweyr. Download other patches as needed.

Valenwood Islands
- Valenwood Islands main file
- Valenwood Islands patch
- LOD fix
These are the three main files for this mod, I did not use any of the optional patches.

Under the sign of the dragon - Tamriel Landscapes
- Black Marsh ESP
- Summerset Isles ESP
- Summerset Isles meshes BSA
- Summerset Isles textures BSA
Note that I did not use any of the LOD resource archives from this mod, and also not the Valenwood-Elsweyr module. These are outdated (according to Reddit).

TWMP Summerset Isles Extension
- TWMP SI version 0.1.1

TWMP Castle Dunkerlore
- Main file

TWMP Hammerfell
- Main file
- Distant LOD
- Resource pack
- _far meshes
- LOD terrain meshes and textures
I don't have Sutch village, so I didn't use the patch. Apply your common sense here. Stirk is integrated in this mod, so remove any stand-alone versions.

TWMP (only High Rock is needed, not Skyrim)
- High Rock ESP
- TWMP LOD resources
Note that you don't need Skyrim ESP but you do need Skyrim LOD resources included in the LOD pack.

TWMP Skyrim Improved
- Main ESP
- Resources
- LOD textures and meshes
Jerall Pass is integrated into this mod, so remove the stand-alone version.

TWMP Locations
- ESP and BSA
Skyrim Nord Tombs is integrated into this mod, so again remove the stand-alone version.

TWMP Skyrim Guard Armors and Shields
- Main file

TWMP Skyrim Alive
- Core
- Optional: Silent dialogue. I don't use Ely's Silent Voice, so I generated this for the whole of Skyrim.
Skyrim Alive is integrated into this mod, so remove the stand-alone version.

Load order is the same as the installation order. If you have any mods that edit the same areas, put them before this lot, or you'll have land tears and/or roads will be lost. Download what patches you need (e.g., for Unique Landscapes) and read descriptions of the corresponding mods for ideas where they go in the load order. I don't use them, so can't test it.

The map

I tried different options and found Dynamic Map to work best, it requires MenuQue.

MenuQue - OBSE Plugin
- Main file version 16b
Note that Dynamic Map states that MenuQue v17 is required, but the highest version we have here is 16b. I use it, it works fine.

Dynamic Map
The main archive contains several options for installation. Choose TWMP Heightmaps - the only option that shows all of Tamriel. Map pack that is available separately, is not needed.

High Detail Dynamic Map TWMP
- Main file
- Patch
Install the main file first, choose the version with Valenwood and Elsweyr. Then the patch because it overwrites the INI file. This is a replacement for the TWMP Heightmaps module of the Dynamic Map.

TWMP Skyrim Alive
- Map archive
This is my overlay for Skyrim - for the High Detail Dynamic Map from above. Again, it overwrites the INI file, so installation order is important.

Once you've got your Dynamic Map installed, have a look at its two configuration files in Data/Ini folder. The core file regulates things like keys used to zoom in and out, while the other file determins what is being displayed. I changed the zoom keys in the core file, for example.

This is the map I shall be maintaining as I explore more of Tamriel. So if I find problems in Elsweyr and Valenwood related to the map, I'll be fixing them for the High Detail version. Unfortunately it is not compatible with "standard" versions because the map is not simply scaled, it is also cropped, so you can't simply resize your old modules - they don't fit properly, you have to redo them in GIMP or something.

Recommended additions

These are the mods I use in my game and they work well with TWMP, at least the Skyrim part which I have so far explored. I understand that some don't work very well with OOO or perhaps something else - check what you are using. For Unique Landscapes there are patches and patches, I've seen them everywhere, so you should be able to fix it.

Load these mods before the TWMP lot, or anyhow before TWMP Skyrim Alive, or you will lose the roads in the Jeralls.

Skyrim Observatory - North-East from the Dive Rock.

HESU Mod Collection - Skyrim Temple - West from the shrine of Azura.

Jerall Home Remastered - puts a house just North of the Dragonclaw Rock.

The Ancient Dwemer Ruins - right on the road West of the Temple of Ancestor Moths.

Ancient Dwemer Ruin Vornhuzduc - in Cyrodiil West of Bruma.

Pinevale - in the Jeralls West of Bruma. There is a pass from below.

Nordinkarst- Nordic Meadhall - in the Jeralls West of Pinevale. Easy access from Falkreath! Use this patch with TWMP. Load the main mod before TWMP mods, and load the patch after the TWMP mods.

The Crystal Chasm - North-West from the shrine of Mora, on the vanilla road to Hammerfell (vanilla road to Hammerfell? Oh yes!!). This puts a road from the shrine connecting to the vanilla road. I hear this conflicts with bandits from the OOO, so you might have to choose.

Red Mead Hall - just West of the shrine of Hermaeus Mora. Quite something. Conflicts with the road from the Crystal Chasm which goes under the building, unfortunately - you have to choose or use my patch for it. This does not depend on TWMP, so can be used without it. Load Chasm first, then Red Mead Hall, then the patch. This block of three can be loaded before all the TWMP mods.

Falkreath - Ghastley's mod, no longer on Nexus. Fits beautifully!

Start playing!

This is the important bit... get out there! Start exploring!!

Oh, and people say you can also safely install Morroblivion on top of all of this. I plan to do it too, at some point.

I have just uploaded two patches for the mead hall mods that I rather liked.

Patch for Red Mead Hall and Crystal Chasm - this makes these two mods work together. It does not depend on TWMP, this is just for vanilla (but also works with TWMP).

TWMP patch for Nordinkarst Mead Hall - this repairs a small land tear near this mead hall. Small but preventing followers to reach the mead hall! Must be fixed. This mead hall is easily reachable from Falkreath! I think you don't need the patch if you are not using TWMP.

The works in Skyrim continue! So much for playing... Oh, wait - I am playing!

My goal now is to get various areas of Skyrim connected to each other with roads and mountain passes - over land rather than via tunnels. The landscape in the South of Skyrim is divided into pockets with high mountains separating them - impossible to climb for an average NPC. So I have commissioned some heavy diggers to build mountain passes suitable for travelling on foot. I am trying to recreate connections that we see in TES5, and although the lay of the land is significantly different, I figured if we have roads connecting some of the same towns, we should be Ok.

Here is my updated map - there is a new road on the Northern side of the Jeralls going from Falkreath via Helgen (Helgen!!) and eventually on to Riften, similar to TES5 (similar enough, I think.)


Compare it to a map true to TES5 geography:



And yes, I've located Helgen. Of course it should be right where the Pale Pass comes into Skyrim. The Northern Inn is going to be a part of it. With the road going West, we have a connection to Falkreath just like in TES5.

There is a new pass connecting Riverwood with the road to Riften, this is still similar to TES5 although of course you could argue that Riverwood is too far East in my version. But relative locations of various towns here are different than in TES5 because the landscape is different, so be it. There was a major land shift. A Warp in the North! Think of something.

Ivarstead is going to be further North. High Hrothgar exists in TWMP, and there's an inn on the way to the top, I think that might be the inn in Ivarstead or anyway somewhere nearby. I didn't get there yet. Before I can go there, I'll need to make some rivers... But that's for a release after the next one.

This was a day of digging mountain passes... Digging, throwing away, messing things up, fixing them, starting again. Three times. Three bloody times!! Learned how to generate new landscape meshes (harder than it looks), learned NOT TO TOUCH landscape textures because I cannot generate them... yeah, harder than it looks! But now I know where I'm going. Dug two passes to connect Falkreath with Helgen, laid some roads, play tested over and over. Werewolves are still falling out of the skies and the whole thing needs beautifying, but the structure is in place! Landscape changed! And I've got pictures!

Falkreath East pass: Nordinkarst Mead Hall to Southern Mine

This gives a better idea of the scale of the enterprise

East exit towards the Southern Mine

Helgen pass to the Southern Mine (going West)

Wow, that is impressive. Knowing nothing as I do, I would have thought a foot trail up and over the mountains would be the way to go. Probably harder to do than it sounds. But this is real cut a road through the mountains kind of stuff. so, how many fireballs did it take for the Deprtment of Roads and Bridges mages to cut through the mountains?

That was a job and a half - far more difficult than I expected. My first five or six attempts didn't work in-game - Lena couldn't climb them, and that is not counting the three starting over incidents when I messed things up on a technical level. A lot of Calm spells were used...

A foot trail only works if the slope is quite shallow - the NPCs in Oblivion don't climb very well, not even horses. The player can often climb a lot higher than the NPCs, but I wanted the trail to be easily accessible by followers riding horses.

If the slope is too steep, you have to use stairs. I tried various available staircases, they have different slope angles, Bravil stairs have the steepest angle. But even that was not steep enough for the mountains, and there was no room for zig-zagging. Also I didn't want that really because Bravil stairs are too steep for horses - they can just about climb them but they do fall off. When I tried to take Roach up the New Pale Pass (which is built with Bravil stairs), Roach was falling off for no reason and breaking her legs, I think those stairs are too narrow for horses.

Back to foot trails then. Drawing a road on a landscape does not yet make the landscape suitable for climbing - you still have the problem with slope. So you have to make serpentine roads and zig-zag a lot, and there is no room for that (and I was too impatient on my third attempt to make a pass). Those mountains are very high and very steep. In fact the height variation in Skyrim is greater than what Oblivion engine is supposed to be able to handle, as I read somewhere. It works just fine though. The mountain ridge West of Falkreath is actually even higher and steeper than the Jerall mountains that serve as a border. So cutting through it was the only feasible solution at that point. It may appear flat in the pictures, but actually it still has a lot of slope to it - as much as the NPCs can climb, it is still not a walk in the park... and I don't even mean the werewolves! I'll try making serpentine roads elsewhere - plenty of mountains to practice on in Skyrim.

Yeah, those mages from the Department of Transport had their work cut out for them. Until one of them came up with a better idea: he summoned a daedroth before breakfast, scaled it up and put a goat on the other side of the mountain. There was a pass there before we knew it.

Ah yes, those Daedroth do love their roast goat.

Update announcement: I've uploaded a patch for TWMP Skyrim Alive - I forgot to pack the new textures into the original archive! I have also updated the main archive, this is now called version 1.0.1 - the same as version 1.0 but the missing files are now included...

Please download the patch (the missing files) if you've got version 1.0 main archive.

Thank you Lena!

Construction continues! I've been fixing up the mountain passes - smoothing the terrain, placing some rocks and trees and redoing path grids. If you don't, creatures materialise in mid-air, and as most of them cannot fly, they fall to their deaths (see mammoth pic below). Also your summons materialise on the grid and fall to their death... So now all path grids actually connect with the ground.

I have also extended Helgen. Well, established Helgen and built it around the Northern Inn where the Old and the New Pale Passes come into Skyim. Of course this is the right spot! Helgen is an Imperial Outpost, so it will have Legionnaires on patrol. It has an old ruined tower (typical) currently overrun by bandits and whatnot, and a new watch tower with barracks. There's also a smithy and of course the inn that was there already before. No interiors or NPCs yet - but they will appear!

Helgen - The Northern Inn and the new watch tower

The smithy, etc.

The old tower

The Helgen mountain pass, now with rocks and trees

Wolf, Ice Worm and the Throat of the World

Mammoths cannot fly

Yesterday I decided to return to Cyrodiil so that Lena could go explore Valenwood and Elsweyr - the map is filled with markers in both provinces (I want all undiscovered markers visible, thank you. What use is a map without markers?). But before she could turn South, she accidentally ventured North from Oakwood in Skyrim...

Sorry, no pics. She entered the Whiterun Hold of TWMP Skyrim Improved. This area is much better fleshed out than the South! The woods have lots of things in them besides trees, it is so much more fun to explore. I always knew the South needed more small stuff - herbs, mushrooms, low bushes, fallen trees, small rocks. I'll be generating those at some point as well, they make such a difference!

But anyway. Going North, Lena immediately got attacked by a pack of werewolves (8 of them), a black bear, a couple of wargs, some timber wolves (6 or 7), a mountain lion and a leopard - all at once. We found a herd of mammoths lying dead on the ground - and we know what killed them! This is all a bit much, don't you think? Those Oblivion gates are messing up everything... And there are so many of them - the sky is nearly perpetually red.

Ahem, Snap! I've got the power to fix this sort of thing.

I looked in the CS and found that the levelled lists that generate creatures were set up a bit too generously. Too many creatures get generated - I'm sure it wasn't intended that way (or was it?). For example, a list for a forest creature contains three packs of werewolves - 1, 3 and 5, so yeah, if you are unlucky, you get 9 of them together because those M symbols are all over the place. Also having three packs of werewolves in the list among other creatures means that werewolves are 3 times more likely to spawn than anything else, such as deer which is in the same list. I started reworking those levelled lists to make them nested with a better chance distribution. This is going to be a separate mod (in case someone likes to be slaughtered like a certain Jandaga we know), current working title "TWMP Skyrim Less Scary.esp".

And then there are the Oblivion gates. There are 100 gates in all of Skyrim, so that's quite a lot. These are normal gates that follow normal Oblivion gate rules, except that they are here while there are no gates in Cyrodiil - I never delivered the Amulet of Kings, so the main quest has not yet started in my game. I quite like to have Oblivion gates in Skyrim - they are not spewing creatures, but they do colour the skies red which gets annoying after a while. So these gates are going to be transient - they will pop in and out of existence all by themselves, whether you close them or not. Mehrunes Dagon is having fun in Skyrim - whichever Era you are in!

Skyrim in Oblivion is also much bigger than Skyrim in Skyrim, did you know? In proportion to the size of the territory of other provinces. So I don't want to go change the land mass, TWMP has done a very good job on that. I'm using what we have, and instead I rework the map!

Here are the two maps for comparison. Essentially I cut Skyrim East to West just South of Riften - High Hrothgar - Whiterun and shifted that whole Northern area upwards by a good amount introducing more space in between. It now matches TWMP landscape quite well - up to Whiterun, I haven't checked further North yet.

The benefit is that he does get a substantial amount of TLC after every encounter.

I do like entering Oblivion Gates but my thought is that a hundred of them is a bit much in a province outside of Cyrodiil. It just goes to show that Dagon did not allocate his resources effectively.

Eight werewolves! What were they thinking? The monster spawning does appear to be ultra aggressive even for one who uses a combination of OOO, MOO and MMM.

Yes, especially considering that it takes 3 daedroth summons to kill 1 werewolf. They are level 22 and have 900 health. For comparison Lena is level 30 and has 256 health! A werewolf knocks her out cold in one swipe. Geralt does better but even he cannot always best more than one before getting knocked out. So a pack of them becomes very problematic.

Macole - never mind please - I found I cannot merge those plugins anyway. Not without moving everything manually which is a bit too involved for my liking. could I ask you please to check this for me? Since you already have OOO and whatnot installed? Could you please load the Chasm mod and post some screenshots of the conflicts. The reason being is that I want to integrate the Chasm mod into Skyrim Alive (it's free to use) but I also want to minimise conflicts with other popular things like OOO. I can't avoid it altogether, I just want to know how bad it is, and OOO is a huge thing to install, and I would rather not have it on my system.

There is no great rush with that, obviously! Thanks in advance! (Clever, eh? )

Bummer . It's shame the OOO Skyrim Bandit major encampment is in the same location as The Crystal Chasm. I thought it would be really neat to have the bandits camped outside the Crystal Chasm.

Yes that was clever . I was getting ready to install The Crystal Chasm. Say lobby, cause I don't know how to say c'est la vie (old joke).

I'd like to make a U-turn on that "never mind" please. I figured out a way to import things yesterday. I cannot merge plugins, I have to import records individually, but it can be done.

The problem is that I've been editing the landscape in that area to connect the road from Helgen to that little stretch of vanilla road that goes on to Hammerfell and extend it to the shrine of Mora, and of course we have Elinhir in TWMP. Makes sense. But this road drawing means that those cells are getting overwritten by Skyrim Alive, and if I wanted to keep the Chasm and the Red Hall and Falkreath, I had to do something clever. I started by importing the landscape from Falkreath, so now the Falkreath mod can be used without patching or not used at all - but Falkreath mod had only small changes to landscape, namely roads, so it was easy. I did the same for the Red Hall, so you can have the road with or without the mead hall. The Chasm is a completely different kettle of fish though - it modifies the landscape heavily and there is no way to reconcile it with Skyrim Alive short of importing one into the other.

So I have to ask you again to please install the Chasm and see whether the bandit camp falls through it. I cannot move the landscape changes - they have to be imported exactly in the same spot, so let's hope the bandits are not camping over it, otherwise I'll have to redo the landscaping elsewhere. But I can easily move the Ayleid structure if that's the problem. If it gets really bad, I'll see about installing OOO in parts just so I could load it into the CS to work around the conflicts, but I will never be able to see it all without installing it fully and it is such a big mod... (nearly 900MB in resources? wow... thank goodness they are in a BSA and not in thousands upon thousands of individual files which is what I was fearing... but mostly I don't want to get beaten up by the Skyrim bandits in-game )

You do realise of course that it will get you inserted into the credits section, don't you? Be warned... And thank you again!

Patch Announcement

I made a small patch for Oscuros Oblivion Overhaul to allow it to work with Crystal Chasm. I simply moved the bandit camp slightly so that it no longer collides with the chasm. The reason for it is that the Chasm will be integrated into the next release of TWMP Skyrim Alive, and I didn't want to throw those bandits into the abyss.

I'll have something for you soon.

Lena, I hope this helps. In my set-up I have major overhauls running; OOO v1.40, MOO, and Unique Landscapes. Ghastley’s Falkreath is also in the general area to the north. The Crystal Chasm does have major issues with OOO as you have discovered. MOO does its own thing while Unique Landscapes and Falkreath have no negative effect as far as I can tell.

Oblivion20190124 22.41.23 OOO SkyrimBandits IceDragonClan camp Marek’s tent is the tall one with the pointed top.

Oblivion20211127 00.36.55 OOO before installing The Crystal Chasm. Brrrrr, it’s cold.

Oblivion20211127 00.50.04 OOO + The Crystal Chasm Prior to patch there is no sign of the Ice Dragon Clan camp

Oblivion20211127 00.53.38 OOO + The Crystal Chasm – Ice Dragon Clan camp colliding with the chasm. Yes this is before applying your patch.

Oblivion20211127 01.05.36 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch + MOO dynamically added Outpost Tower. Nice place for an abandoned tower. I don’t know how MOO determines the placement. It might not be there the next time you start a new game.

Oblivion20211127 01.15.01 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch – anti-gravity rock FYI cell (-14,41) position (-52248,170136,32218) easily disabled vis console. actually theere are two rocks floating next each other.

Oblivion20211127 01.22.50 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch - Bandit Camp moved Looks good. Should be 5 tents with clutter; I see five tents and some clutter.

Oblivion20211127 01.30.32 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch - OOO Ice Dragon Clan Skyrim Bandits pathing and spawning. The Skyrim bandits attack the player on sight. There are four bandits plus Marlek their captain. This should be a very difficult fight. Two of the bandits got caught south of the chasm and were unable to cross. (found out there is a barrier that prevents you from falling or otherwise descending into the chasm). One bandit attacking from the south and another from the east had no problem. Marlek the captain was nowhere to be seen.
On one test one bandit spawned inside the chasm underneath the stairs surrounded by storage chests and boxes.

Oblivion20211127 01.43.37 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch - OOO Marlek. Taking the ladder down into the chasm I was unexpectedly attacked by Marlek. Even though I like the idea of Marlek investigating the Crystal Chasm he really should be up near his tent in the camp.

Oblivion20211127 02.11.52 OOO + The Crystal Chasm + patch - OOO Marlek's items found in chasm. Using a save from 2019-01-23 Marlek’s items; Marlek’s Bedroll, elegant chest, exquisite jewelry box, and Vyka’s Change of Plans note should be in Marlek’s tent. There are 3 barrels, 3 bottles of mead, and one book here that should be placed in or around Marlek’s tent. To get to these items and Marlek if he is there you have to use TCL as there is a barrier that prevents you from climbing or jumping into this portion of the chasm. Marlek’s tent in the camp only contains two sacks. One inside the tent and one outside, both are nearly completely buried in the snow.

Now that’s another thing I found strange. not every time but on a couple of tests the bandits attacking on the snow covered slope between the camp and the chasm would sink completely into the snow when they died.

Please let me know if there are any qquestions or concerns.

OOH that was some serious testing - thanks Macole!!

So I think we can conclude that MOO or UL does not clash and moving the bandit camp is the right approach. Have you checked the road all the way to the shrine of Hermaeus Mora? But I think it should be conflict-free.

I got a couple of comments on Nexus and it appears that there are differences between the versions of OOO. I didn't see all those versions at first because I had disabled adult content (too many boob mods on the front page) but now I see that we have three major versions of OOO about: 1.3.6.1 (a.k.a 1.36.1 "LITE"), 1.4 (known as "FULL") and 1.5.5+ (latest is 1.5.12 known as "Updated"). I used 1.3.5a (the last version not marked as adult content) but you are running 1.4 and there's also 1.5.5+. You cannot switch between 1.4 and 1.5.5 - you need a new game (all FormIDs have changed, I've been told). It's a bit of a mess, but I can handle three versions.

Regarding the issues that you found.

Some items still stuck in the chasm - could be because I used version 1.35 and it didn't have these items. I thought I moved everything. Will make a patch specifically for 1.4.

Floating rock - must have been moved accidentally. Or someone forgot to pay their gravity bill. Tszst - tszst - user error. If you click on that rock, does its ID start with 00 (vanilla) or with something else (mod)? If you then click on an obelisk, the fist two digits in its ID identify the mod, so all the items from that mod start with that. Click on a bandit tent, and you have the ID for OOO in your load order. These are dynamic IDs that change every time you change your mod list, but they do help to tell what comes from where.

Don't worry about that rock though - I'll be making a new patch anyway.

Marek materialising inside the chasm - he must have gone there, it's a different cell, he could not be spawned in it. May be he was spawned just next to the entrance though.

Some bandits getting stuck on the other side of the chasm - I should move the camp a bit further away, this should fix it. The bandits are probably trying to cross the chasm as this is the most direct path, then they get stuck. Could you check whether there are any path nodes inside the chasm? Use TPG console command please.

Dead bandits getting stuck in the snow - incorrect path grid is the most likely cause.

I'll make a new patch for 1.4 and make sure to include pathing around the chasm.

I have now integrated the chasm into TWMP, so I shall be making those patches for OOO. I'm still building Helgen though, so release is a stretch away anyhow. It will be a few days before another attempt at OOO patching - Elsweyr calls! There's a silent bet going on here that Lena won't get to Elsweyr before Christmas, well, I need to see that she does!

Thanks again for the great testing, Macole! You thought you retired, but may be not...

Lena,

I didn't realize how much I miss that job. Difference is that back then I had an office with a libary full of reference manuals. Plus, I knew the multiple systems I was working with.

The rocks formIDs begin with 00.

Today I loaded a save from 2019-01-22 previously I used a file from 2019-01-24. Walking west up the mountain past Hermaeus Mora’s shrine I found the junction going north to the Crystal Chasm. It is well marked with many banners. The road itself is clear and no issues encountered while traveling on it.

Now for the fun part.

Something is missing in Marlek's big tent.

Marlek’s big tent and items in and around; the bedroll, elegant chest, exquisite jewelry box, Vyka’s Change of Plans note are in the big tent buried in the snow. Their formIDs begin with 04. Other clutter; 3 barrels, 2 sacks, 3 bottles of mead, a 1 book, and platinum nugget are in and around the big tent also buried in the snow.

I am unable to enter the big tent. Don’t remember if I was able to enter the big tent or if I was able to reach the chest and jewelry box from the entrance. I will have to uninstall the Crystal Chasm to determine that.

The logs for the fire outside the big tent are buried in the snow.

Found two of the ice Dragon Clan bandits running around below the surface. See the TPG.

TPG: Is this what you need? Looks like the path grid goes under the surface.

How far away from the Crystal Chasm can you place the OOO Ice Dragon Clan camp? Would further to west of on the other side of the road be too far away? To me this looks like a good spot: Location (0000003c), Cell (-17,40), Position (-62908, 165446, 32233). Cell (-16, 40) also looks good. But then I don’t know what I’m doing.

Marlek is again trapped in the chasm. The items in the chasm that I pointed to in last test are not there. I don’t know what to say I load a different save and things end up in different places. Would the fact that I'm not usiing the TWMP height map make a difference?

Map marker: Loading my current game and using fast travel to Ice Dragon Clan camp I arrived at original map marker located under the northern snow bank surface.

I'm fairly certain that the OOO versions 1.34 to1.40 are consistant with this camp location. The Skyrim Bandits has been very stable for 12 years I've been playing with it.

Well anyway best of luck with this project and let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Who knows, I just might learn something.

Macole - thanks again for the testing!

Yes, the path grid going into the chasm is the reason why the bandits get trapped there. It appears that OOO spawns them near the camp but not exactly on the markers, so some end up in the chasm. The solution must be to move the camp further away. You don't need TWMP to test this because TWMP does not alter the landscape in this area (yet). I am adding roads to Falkreath in my mod, so here comes the change, and then I'll really really need a patch for OOO.

What about your load order though? The Chasm mod itself has correct pathing around the chasm, but you must have something else loaded after it because your path grid goes right through. With landscape and pathing, it's the last loaded mod that edits anywhere in that cell overwrites the entire cell. But again, don't fret too much - I shall be making a new patch anyway.

Another fun command is TPL. Click an actor, then issue TPL and exit console. You will briefly see a pink line from that actor to wherever he/she is going. This is the path the AI intends to take. Sometimes they are awfully crazy. Nothing you can do about that, it's just for fun. It can be useful in debugging path grids, but since NPC AI is free to ignore path grids, it isn't much of an indicator. The AI learns over time however, and I observed many times that just as you introduce new obstacles, the NPCs at first try walking into them, but then they remember most of it, and after some time their AI becomes a lot more sensible in that area. There must be a cache somewhere, something being stored in the save file, it can't be all down to luck. Of course then they go to an inn, get drunk and forget everything they've learned... *sigh*

Regarding the new location for the bandit camp - I think it definitely needs to be in a different cell, a good stretch away, so indeed either one cell North or one cell West. But didn't you have a MOO random watch tower in the West?

Missing items: some items are persistent across saves whereas others come exclusively from the mod. Typically any items that can be picked up, will not be moved by a mod - their locations are stored in the save the first time you enter the cell they are in. Because this patch relocates the items rather than respawns them, such items won't be moved (the same ID). But if indeed some items go missing because of that, the solution might be to change their IDs so that they do get respawned in the new location. Let me make another patch first, then check for those items again.

Note that this is not the same as ticking "Persistent" flag on an object placed in a cell. For example, markers and doors are always persistent, but they do get moved by the mod. Your map marker should have moved too, my only thinking is that it didn't move far enough. You don't get teleported exactly on the spot of the marker but only near it - the more reason to move the camp further away, I think it will work much better when the new reference is in a different cell.

Interesting about not being able to enter the tent. There should be no difference, it's the same tent, and it didn't have a door in the original, at least not in the version I was using. I think it will be better to start with version 1.4 so that we could eliminate this sort of inconsistency. The camp may look the same in the game, but it could well be different under the hood.

I've been doing portable camping equipment this weekend. Yes, Lena still didn't get to the Imperial City even, instead she's gone back to Skyrim to test the new mountain pass from Riverwood to the Rift... "What did I tell you?" was sitting next to me all day! But hey, we need camping equipment! Borba is raving about it!

Macole - you cannot enter those tents, that's correct. It is how the models are made. But you can reach some items right near the entrance. To enter the tent, you need a door leading you to an interior cell just like in any house.

I discovered this when I added a large tent to my camping gear and Lena got trapped inside it. There is no way out!

I'm using Wrye Bash to install and have placed the Crystal Chasm esp followed by the patch beneath all other OOO patches. That's way down in my load order. I'm going to move the patch very near the bottom just to see if that would make a difference. Probably not.

"Whatever will they think of next!" - was the reaction we got from most customers leaving The Three Brothers Trade Goods in the Imperial City. "They sell tents and bedrolls now! And fire logs! Fire logs!! Who is going to be stupid enough to spend their money on that?!"

We went to see for ourselves.

"Yes, of course there are many campsites in Cyrodiil already set up and complete with all the camping gear" - the Verus brothers tell us. "But what if you want to camp in a different spot? By that beautiful lake you came across? Or what if you simply don't want to be bothered with fighting the bandits first?"

That is a good point, we have to agree. Most existing campsites are overrun by bandits. So, what do the Verus brothers have on offer for an independent camper?

"You'll need bedrolls first and foremost" - the brothers are nodding knowingly. "If you want to get any sleep that is. You'll also need those portable stools if you don't like to sit on the ground - most people don't. You'll want a tent to put your bedroll into if you want to stay dry in the rain, and finally you definitely want some fire logs."

Yes, about that... Couldn't you just gather some sticks for free?

"Sticks? We don't sell sticks! Have you ever tried to actually make a campfire? Have you?"

Oh dear, we might have offended them. We never tried to make a campfire, we have to admit. Campfires are not allowed in the Imperial City.

Apparently, you can't just make a campfire with random sticks found in the wilderness. It's got to be proper fire logs and most of all - you need a fire starter.

"The fire starter is what we are charging for, you get the logs for free" - the brothers smile at us. "And it's reusable - just pack it up when you are ready to leave and reuse it in another spot!"

This does seem to be the height of modern technology, who needs magic with this? Is it Dwemer, we wonder?

"Not Dwemer, just good old Imperial ingenuity." Of course.

"Imperial? Imperial?!" - Borba gra-Uzgash from the General Goods store in Cheydinhal cannot believe what she hears. "It is Orcish, I'll have you know!" Oh dear. "I've been using it for years! I'm an old adventurer myself, and I know what's wanted!"

We would be fools to argue with Borba - on any subject. But it is true that she has a rather more impressive selection of camping gear than the Verus brothers.

"My tents are much sturdier than theirs, and my bedrolls are more comfortable, and of course my campfires light up a lot quicker and last longer" - she patiently explains to us. As city dwellers, we see no difference what so ever, but we would be fools to argue with Borba.

So then, where can one get these wonders of modern technology? Everyone will want it now, surely?

"The camping gear is being distributed throughout Tamriel" - Vinicia Melissaeia at the Office of Imperial Commerce tells us. "You will find it at every general store in every city, and even in some smaller settlements. The selection will vary, however, so if you see an item you want, best get it then and there or be prepared to go without." Very sound advice, applicable to all items, not just camping gear.

And there you have it! Be an independent camper! Go forth and explore!

But what's that noise outside the offices of the Black Horse Courier? Oh, it's the inn keepers - the square is filled with them, and the Imperial Guard has a hard time keeping them from throwing stones into our windows...

"It's bad enough already that the traders sell the stuff, but why do you have to advertise it?!" - an angry inn keeper shouts at us. "Who will stay at an inn now and pay for it when they can camp anywhere for free?!"

Oh dear. This is an unexpected turn of events for the Black Horse Courier. But this is news happening right here and right now - and we are here to bring it to you! Don't miss your chance to get a copy of the Black Horse Courier!



After the first batch of this edition was printed, we received a most gracious visit from Borba gra-Uzgash. It appears that her camping gear is indeed different from that offered by the Verus brothers. Where the Imperial camping gear is limited to strictly one set per party of adventurers, Borba's Orcish gear is completely individual, so that you can - and indeed are encouraged to - carry as many bedrolls, stools or tents as you wish, all in one pack! Why, you could even set up a dozen campfires next to each other for a truly warming experience!

Borba also mentioned that she was currently sold out of the Orcish camping equipment due to an unusually high demand by Orc adventurers. However, she expects a new shipment from Skyrim in near future.

TR_Stirk; from what I see the map alignment is good. A marker is displayed indicating that I’ve been there. Using map marker to fast travel to Stirk puts me in the middle of town as it should.

Sutch Village: As with TR_Stirk, the map marker alignment looks good. Fast travel to that marker puts me in the middle of town as it should. I don’t see a need to do more with it.

Cybiades: the small island of Cybiades in the Iliac Bay just off the coast NE of Sentinel (arrow) is missing. The significance of the island Cybiades has diminished since the Daggerfall game. Nice to have but probably not worth the bother.

Southern portion of the map:

Atmora should be in the northern sea.

Valenwood Islands: The three islands are on the map as they should be. Map markers for the village on the big island are not displayed to indicate having been there. I’m not sure where to look for the .dds file overlays. I’ve been searching through the folders but haven’t found .dds files for the Valenwood Island mod or its village. This is one of those nice to have features that probably won’t be missed if not there. Wouldn’t worry too much about it

This is nice! The more I work with this map the more I like it.
The kid does get around.

Macole - thanks for the brilliant testing! Let me know of any mistakes in the future, such as Daggerfall being spelled as Daggerfell and Vvardenfell as Vaardenfall as on the map I started out with. A brilliant map but some of the labels had to be redone... Which meant all of the labels because I could not match the original font. Oh, and yes, Atmora being relocated South... This is all easy to fix when you have the source files, as I do.

A word on how the map works. There are two independent things: the background image and the map markers. The images live in Data\Textures\menus\DynamicMap. The image is what I've changed, the markers however come from the mods you are using (respectively, vanilla markers come from Oblivion.esm). A marker has its coordinates in a particular cell, and the idea is that the background image provides the correct picture for that cell. So the map does not do anything at all to the markers - if they existed on your previous map, they will exist also on the new one. (I have all map markers revealed, whether I discovered them or not. Useful for testing the map. And generally a cheat. Or is it? When I buy a map in a shop, it normally has towns and villages marked on it already.)

When it comes to mods that add new lands far outside of Cyrodiil, they often do that in a separate worldspace that is not anchored in Tamriel, that is they don't have any coordinates in the Tamriel worldspace. So you don't see any of the Shivering Isles map markers in Tamriel - that would be weird. Whether or not a worldspace is anchored in Tamriel is determined by the mod you are using, not by the map.

So with TR Stirk, they have obviously anchored their worldspace in Tamriel and the map provided a drawing of an island in the right spot. So when you travel there, you can zoom into the map and see whether the shape of the island under your feet corresponds to the drawing on the map - or does it appear that you are walking on water. It is probably fine with TR Stirk, but generally this is what we need to check.

With Valenwood Islands there is a confusion - there are two versions of them... I have markers on the Valenwood Islands on my map, and I think they come from Valenwood Improved. Reading through Valenwood Island mod, the author says they are located in a separate worldspace, and I think she means that it isn't anchored in Tamriel. Which means that when you eventually travel all the way South in Valenwood, you will discover another set of Valenwood Islands... Clearly, when Martin shattered the Amulet of Kings, it wasn't just Kvatch that got duplicated... I have Valenwood Islands mod loaded, but there are no villages in sight - they should be floating in the ocean to the South, if they had been anchored in Tamriel, but they are not there.

Valenwood Improved + Elsweyr Anequina + Senchal the Sea Side City

Zoomed in Southern part

Alternative lay of the land: Elsweyr Anequina + Elsweyr Pelletine. The arrow shows the location of Valenwood Islands with this land layout, but there are no map markers on them, which means that the mod is not anchored in Tamriel.

I shall change the description on the mod page to reflect these new findings! This means you can load Valenwood Islands either with Valenwood Improved or with Elsweyr Pelletine. Since they don't show up on the general map anyway. Oh well.

There will be a map update after some time - I noticed a few things myself that need changing. But it seems to be useable as it is! Glad you like it and many thanks again for testing!!

PS. If anyone is wondering, this map is available as a mod on Nexus: Tamriel HD module for Dynamic Map.

Wow Lena, look at the activity on your map's nexus site. Oblivion players are hungry for improvements.

It is really good to see such a well written description page. You addressed a couple of items before I even had a chance to ask.

Thank you for helping me to better understand how the internals of the game works.

Oh and thanks for the acknowledgement. Much appreciated.

Thanks, Macole! There has not been an update for the map in a long time - the last Tamriel map is ten years old, and with so many mods adding new lands, people want new maps! Just like me.

I am uploading an update for the mod - it has a few minor changes to labels, I got rid of Atmora label because there's no room for it at the top of the map, and I added Cybiades, even though the mod does not put a marker on the island. But still. Why not. But most importantly, I changed around some overlays to improve performance, so I recommend upgrading. It's uploading as I am typing this.

Lena is still in Skyrim... Well, she's on her way South! She's not far from the Temple of Ancestor Moths and she came across an Ancient Dwemer Ruin right on the road. Walking up the hill, she saw the HESU Skyrim Temple on the other side. How could she not stop and have a look around?

HESU Skyrim Temple and the Ancient Dwemer Ruin seen from the East

A closer view

Make sure to load the Dwemer Ruin after the Skyrim Temple to avoid land tears.

Lena found some of the Dwemer technology rather fascinating: a few anti-gravity rocks and invisible walls here and there. Hmmm... Naturally, she had to fiddle with it. Patched it up.

Proceeding to Cheydinhal now to get some of that Orcish Camping Gear from Borba.

I made a new version of the patch, now putting the bandit camp further away from the chasm, to the West of the chasm bridge (cell -16,40). Again, the patch is mastered exclusively on OOO.

Many thanks to Macole for thorough testing of the first attempt!!

This version should not have issues with disappearing things and people, one would like to hope.

Just a bigger map is a micro-mod I released yesterday, not expecting any interest. Well... it seems I was wrong! People seem to like it! Which is why I thought I'd mention it here. It is for those people who want to keep the vanilla menus but just want a bigger map like in this screenshot.

Lena, test v1.1
The new location looks good. The tents are all in place but there is something odd going on with my setup.

I ran three tests.

First test: Faulty update, operator error. Lost all my custom snowy rock textures, everything is black. Redid patch install and Bash Patch.

Second test: with my current save which is long after I have completed the OOO Skyrim Bandit quest;

1. The camp location looks good and all the tents are in place.
2. I can go into the big tent. and loot the chest and jewelry box.
3. I was able to loot the and loot the chest and jewelry box that I was unable to unlock due to lack of skill, in January 2019
4. The Marlek’s big tent and Blondie’s smaller tent do not have sleeping bags.
5. The missing bedrolls and sacks are found still buried in the chasm.

Third test: with a save from 2019-01-22 prior to engaging Marlek the Ice Dragon Clan leader went rather strangely;

1. This is what the camp looked like in 2019 before adding Crystal Chasm
2. As in First Test the new camp location looks good and all the tents are in place.
3. I can go into the big tent and loot the chest and jewelry box.
4. Bedrolls and sacks missing in second test are in their correct places (strange).
5. The Skyrim Bandits are nowhere to be seen when I first enter the camp.
6. After walking around the area looking for the bandits, three bandits eventually did attack.
7. Searched the Chasm for Marlek and Blondie, the fourth Ice Dragon Clan bandit. Found both stuck in the Chasm.
------ a. Marlek
------ b. Blondie
8. Back in the Ice Dragon Clan camp it was getting dark around 9:00pm when Marlek shows up and attacks. Marlek is defeated and the quest update message is displayed.

I’m not certain as to why Marlek reacts the way he does. He may be scripted to appear in the camp at night? I’m also not sure if Marlek will appear consistently as he did this time.

The NPC I call Blondie is always close by Marlek. If you would play the Skyrim Bandits OOO quest you get the idea that Marleks is a two timing cad.

I am at a loss as to why the current save after defeating Marlek is different than the one prior to defeating Marlek. Any thoughts on that?

It would be um, fun if Marlek and Blondie were fixed in the Crystal Chasm Poolroom or Bedroom.

Macole, thanks for great testing! Again!

I can explain the strange things that you are seeing, but I shall verify any scripting in the CS tonight.

The bandits appear to be all persistent references rather than generic respawning ones, meaning that the moment you enter the cell for the first time, or the moment the NPCs are enabled by a script, their locations are recorded in your save file, so any changes to their locations introduced by a mod are ignored. These bandits then follow their AI schedules, which, judging by the screenshot showing them a distance away from the tents, are telling them to roam the area in a fairly large circle. When you return to the location, all NPC positions are taken from your save file, and then their AI schedules are applied. (This is roughly how it works, there are a number of finer points that I omitted, but it gives a general idea.)

This is why the bandits roam around to start with, eventually finding the new location of their camp and coming back to it. Unfortunately for Marek and his beautiful Blondie, they are stuck in the chasm and cannot get out. In this case Oblivion comes to the rescue - but only after some time. Oblivion lets them marinade in the chasm for a while, but when it transpires that they are unable to follow their AI schedules, the game fetches them and relocates them somewhere safe. Hence Marek eventually appearing, Blondie should follow at some point too. Note that Oblivion can easily let them marinade for 24 in-game hours before coming to the rescue (I've observed this a few times). In the worst case it can be full 3 days - the standard duration before a cell resets.

The same goes for the two bedrolls and sacks that didn't move - for some strange reason their coordinates were recorded in your save file, which is usually not the case for stationary objects. But there you go. It's Oblivion.

So, to test it cleanly, you would need a save from before you ever ventured into that area, and certainly from before their quest was started. If you don't have such a save, don't worry - I'll enable OOO in my game, put Lena in God Mode and go see for myself. Lena would never survive it as herself, I don't think.

Your testing with "dirty" saves is very important though, because this is what many people will see when they apply it. OOO generally says that you have to start a new game for it to work correctly, this may be because they make extensive use of persistent references, so things don't get moved when you apply a mod. This is just a suspicion though - but the stubborn bedrolls and sacks seem to confirm it. Or may be it was just a fluke with those sacks and bedrolls - who knows. The fact that their position was different between saves, shows that where they remained in the old position, that position was recorded in the save.

I can suggest one more test on a "dirty" save. Take the one where the bedrolls and sacks were positioned correctly but Marek and Blondie were stuck in the chasm. Enter area, walk around, kill whoever is present, save. Wait 24 hours. Walk around a bit more, and I would expect both Marek and Blondie to turn up after a little while - they should have been rescued by the game engine by now. So now you can kill them. If Marek is a "Quest Item", he may be extra persistent, with his location being recorded in the save file before everyone else's. If Blondie is scripted to follow him, it would explain her behaviour as well. But I need to check this in the CS.

When you were testing v1.0, you found Marek in the chasm cell. I think this was the rescue action by Oblivion. Rescues are not consistent.

This new location of the camp is going to be the definitive one because the location from v1.0 interferes with the road to Falkreath that I introduce in the upcoming release of TWMP Skyrim Alive, which also incorporates the chasm.

And by the way: path grids run right through the chasm already in the original mod, which would make NPCs suicidal trying to cross the chasm. This is fixed in my Skyrim Alive version of the chasm.

Once again - thank you so much for testing!

May I use your nice screenshot showing the camp and the chasm on the mod page, please? I haven't got any decent screenshots myself, the CS is not very good for it. Thanks in advance - but only if you agree, of course.


Strange - the patch does nothing to any textures! Do you always make a Bash Patch? I tried it a few times, but it consistently screwed things up for me, so I never use it. What happened is that it combined some of the things that should have been overwritten - and indeed were overwritten correctly if you just loaded the mods in the right order. The order that Wrye Bash figures out to be correct is not always all that correct, I found. Automatic things never are.

Working as designed. I think I understand what you are saying. It explains a lot.

I always rebuild the Bash patch after uninstalling and installing a mods .esp. That is unless I forget which is what I did. But it sounds like there is a confusion with BOSS the sorting program. The patch was place near the bottom of my load order. No re-sorting of the order was done.

You can use any picture that I send to you. If you want one without my NPCs in the shot, wider FOV, or a special persective let me know and it probably can be done.

I have older saves, ones before my ffirst encounter with any Skyrim Bandit, that I can try using.

Thanks for the screenshot! I'll use that - it's just perfect, shows both the camp and the chasm bridge. Your characters are also looking very fetching there. High heels and all.

Regarding Wrye Bash, what I mean is that my Wrye Bash always tries to find the right place for a new mod in the load order - and more often than not it is the wrong place. I always have to move all new mods to where I actually want them. May be I used Bashed Patch wrong, but after a few attempts I just gave up. I completely ignore it and never build or load it - and everything works as I expect it to work, conflicts and all. Plus, not using it saves time when I'm juggling mods around.

Skyrim has many surprises, and most of them are deadly. This is not a land for a casual adventurer! But if you do survive, you truly will have a tale worth telling.

Some say that the real test of your adventuring mettle comes in the Labyrinthian maze. The place is shrouded in mystery and is filled with danger. It's all true, but also it is a well-known attraction with too much publicity - don't forget to pick up your souvenir wooden mask by the exit. For someone looking for a real mystery, lesser known labyrinths of Skyrim may be more attractive. Labyrinths in plural? Oh yes, there is definitely more than one.

This book touches upon one of them: the Helgen Labyrinth.

So, what is it? Well, it's a labyrinth in Helgen... Are you with me so far? Am I not rushing the story a bit too much for you? Good, an adventurer should be able to withstand a few insults, especially from a gargoyle. But that is a tale for another book!

There are tales of a labyrinth hidden somewhere in Helgen, that is the entrance to it is somewhere in Helgen. Well, Helgen is not a huge city but only an Imperial Legion outpost guarding the Pale Pass, so it shouldn't be that hard to find.

Wait, what? The Pale Pass? Isn't it that Akaviri crossing?

Oh yes, dear amateur adventurer, your voice rings loud and clear. Went to fetch the Madstone for the Countess of Bruma, did you? That's a seasonal competition with bets being placed on your success or failure... I lost quite a few septims on that little game! Once the Madstone is presented to the Countess, she quietly dispatches her rangers to go and put it back, so that the next unsuspecting adventurer could walk right into that trap again, providing for much needed entertainment for the citizens of Bruma and the ghosts of the Pale Pass Fortress alike. "No one knows where that pass is!" No one indeed. And you fell for it? No wonder I keep losing money on this...

But I digress. The Pale Pass is a name given to any mountain crossing from Bruma to Helgen, and there is more than one, and there were certainly other routes in use in the past, such as that Akaviri one. Mountain passes are prone to avalanches and cave-ins, their routes change as time passes, but for as long as we can remember, there has been a crossing between Bruma and Helgen named the Pale Pass. And this is the long and short of it.

So what of the labyrinth? Well, it is said to be your worst nightmare. It can go on and on, ever changing, ever regenerating, ever presenting yet another dungeon to cross, yet another turn. People have gone in and not come out for days, nay, weeks, nay, not come out at all! Their wraiths are undoubtedly still trapped in there, waiting for you to visit. So if you feel suicidal - this is your chance!

But then again, if no one ever came out of there, there would have been no one to spread the tales either. Obviously, a way out exists. The trick is to know how to find it. The accounts of what the exit looks like vary from straightforward to a bit strange to outright unbelievable and bizarre, and I'm not telling you what it looked like to me either. You have to see for yourself. But yes, an exit definitely exists! What is more, a vital clue is written on the key that unlocks the inner door. But what adventurer will stop and peer into the barely visible lettering on a key? Most will just ram it into the lock, impatient to meet their doom.

But why would you even go there? If you are asking yourself this question, then you'll be better off exploring the Northern Inn instead. It's your choice. The inn has pretty good mead, by the way, which in itself might be your worst nightmare. People have gone into mead halls and not come out for days, if at all. Their unresponsive bodies are often thrown out into the snow where they either sober up or move on. The Red Hall is the only one that we know to allow unconscious customers to take up valuable floor space indoors. But then again, the Red Hall has its own surprises.

But I digress, again! Skyrim has many wonders, from mead halls to labyrinths, to transient Oblivion gates, Dwemer ruins, Nordic tombs and of course straightforward caves and mines perfect to spend the night. And all of it is waiting for you.

I have put together Helgen, the town and the labyrinth. All that is left is to test it... And to get it to actually work. Details.

After spending most of the day getting my computer issues sorted (see the other thread), I was able to finally do a bit of Helgen testing. Mixed results there, but that's normal - this stuff is highly experimental.

While I was making Helgen however, I was also preparing to go South in the game, so I had Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Summerset Isles and other similar tropical mods in my load order. Something is doing funny things to Imperial gear - look, it's all covered in tropical vegetation!


But this problem is for another day...

That is the strangest thing I've seen in a long time. Could be a druid or a tree hugging Bosmer has move in.

Yeah, this is really weird. The ferns are only growing out of Legion gear that is lying loose as opposed to it being worn. I've got Legionnaires stationed around Helgen, and they've got no ferns growing out of their armpits (yet). But give it time...

Looking back at the OOO patch to move the bandit camp North of the shrine of Hermaeus Mora - Macole, I'm looking at you! I found this page on CS Wiki that takes a good look at cell reset mechanism - both for internal and external cells. It gets rather technical at times, but they do try to explain all those persistent/non-persistent/dynamic/dead/etc. aspects with respect to the data set in the CS (vanilla modules or mods) versus data stored in save game files.

Just an FYI for those who wanted to know more. Not needed to play the game!

There you go again, making me learn something new. Should have done this ten years ago.

Spent most of the day yesterday testing and debugging the Helgen Labyrinth. By the end of the day Lena successfully got lost, and I mean really lost - I had to enable all debugging output to figure out where she was and which door would lead her to safety! In the end I had to use COC to get her out! I'd say the labyrinth works as intended.

The funny thing that deep inside it she received a visit from a certain captain asking her help with a disaster on the Cybiades. Amazing how these characters can find you in the most unusual places. Unfortunately he just ran off after their conversation, leaving Lena stuck in the labyrinth.

The unwavering courier syndrome strikes again. "Sorry no time to help. Got message to deliver, you know."

Cybiades? Goodness Lena your mod list is getting up there in size. Close to mine it seems.

166 mods enabled at the moment, but a few more on standby. In particular in the South you've got to choose between Valenwood Improved and Elsweyr Pelletine, so at the moment the Valenwood suite is on, but it may change. I feel a (very) rough patch coming on, too. And yes, Cybiades. The write-up sounded nice, so why not. Also a few other "outworldly" mods, old and new. I've got the entire Tamriel as TWMP, except Morroblivion, which will come in later. There's a TWMP patch for it, but there's also another solution, I only glanced at both, that's not for now. But I don't have any texture replacers, not for landscapes and not for bodies, I actually like my Oblivion the way I'm used to seeing it... But there you go.

PS. Someone on Nexus suggested that my game could only be lightly modded because that's all you would be able to manage with my 15 y/o PC. I would not call it "lightly modded". But of course mods differ greatly in their impact on performance, but so far I haven't used any enhancements like OSR - no need.

TWMP Skyrim Alive 1.1 is out!

I have just released version 1.1 of the Skyrim Alive adventure. Phew! Now Lena can finally focus on going South! All the info is on the Nexus page, no need to repeat it here. Besides, if you've been reading the updates, you already know what's included!

IMO, as long as you don't go loading 4K texture replacers you'll be fine. Even I don't go overboard on the replacers.

P.S. I have running 273 .esp's and another 70 texture replacers loaded. It's not the heaviest load i've heard of

I found that for my setup the number of NPCs in a fight is the slowing factor. The CPU becomes overloaded at about 10 actors with active battle AI. Just walking around is no problem. The game doesn't crash but starts to stutter, I suppose I could improve it with those stutter removers but as it is so rare, I have not bothered so far.

HD textures would probably be a problem too, but I run Oblivion on half resolution, so they lose their HD factor anyway, and I don't bother. That is, I run Oblivion at 1600x900 while the screen has double that resolution, and I let the screen do anti-aliasing - it's a smart TV. The PC is set to the same resolution as Oblivion.

But still, 150+ mods is not what I would call "light". Although it is nothing like yours, and I'm sure other people have even more mods, but to me "lightly modded" would be under 20...

Spent most of the day untangling the mess I made earlier. This concerns companions. I''ve been using a heavily modified Companion Share and Recruit, and I've arrived at the point of starting from scratch on my own companion system... Which I had done, but the companions themselves were rather messy too, so I had to pull them out of the old mod and put them each into their individual mods, edit IDs, make it all stick together...

So why I am writing about it in this topic? Because I need to have Lena's friend Hauk fixed so that they could go South to check on more TWMP territories. Not Skyrim anymore, but the land of Elsweyr actually comes from TWMP too. So I'm still on topic. Hauk is the first companion with the new system, and he's going to be testing it. But the others also had to be converted, even if they are staying in the background, to make sure that the old system is not loaded.

Let me tell you this: it is better to avoid making a mess from the start!

Does anybody know why the Mages Guild in Dune is abandoned? No?

Well, we found the following crumpled note under some junk in there:

Well, now you've done it! What were you thinking?! Experiment in teleportation, indeed! Did you string up every single goblin-infested dungeon that you could find? And if that wasn't bad enough, why oh why did you connect each of them to the trapdoor in the Mages Guild? Oh, "for convenience", so that you wouldn't find yourself trapped in there again doing your experiments! But goblins also found it very convenient to get to our supplies! You should see the mess! And the worst part is that they now stole the key to the trapdoor, so I can't even lock them out anymore...

That's it, I've had enough - I am leaving. Zayiq Cherim has got the key to the Guild Hall. I instructed him to only give it to another mage - it's just unfair to subject anyone else to the results of your experiments. Perhaps someone will be able to find the key to the trapdoor and lock out those goblins once and for all! Mind you, they'll have to go through a lot of dungeons, and with your random connections, there's no telling how long it will take them to even get to the right one, let alone to actually find the key in there... Goblin psychology never saw enough study to even begin to guess where they might hide it.

Oh we should have expelled you when we had the chance!

It's just another mystery of Elsweyr, it seems. But may be... hmm... "Elsweyr Mysteries.esp" is in the making...