minque, I wasn't being rude. He couldn't tell if I was being sarcastic or not, so I told him don't worry that head of his about it. I have been perfectly civil this entire debate. Civil is my middle name. I am DoomedOne "Civil" Rodriguez.

Darkwing: I understand the chances of seeng a government official lobbying against tobacco or alcohol is very rare because of the finacial benefits, but there are plenty who attempt to push their "moral values" in this country by raging against the legal use of Marijuana IE Medical marijuana, which is a drug that has helped thousands of people with serious illnesses. I find that marijuana is so harmless it's an exhaustion of funds to spend all that time trying to cut down the trafficking of it.

But I'm curious, if Marijuana and all is so harmless why is it illegal?

Because #! some people share different views than others and #2 it's hard to get votes when most of a country is against one of your views, so some people change some of their views.

If thats true then how comes Cigs and Alcohol are legal then? There must of been some sort of smart reasoning when they outlawed the stuff..

I've explained why,m two reasons:

After prohibition, when alcohol was legalized again, the FBI basically had nothing to do.

A very rich business man had invented a synthetic replacement for hemp, and lobbied for the illegalization of hemp around the same time.

Politicians got behind this new idea and started pushing for its illegalization. Film-makers were paid to make movies where they invented effects of the drug, turning it into this evil substance.

It's not 100% harmless, but less harmful than advil. With prolonged use it does turn you into a bit of a loser with no goals and aspirations in life. That seems pretty harmful, but that's not a legal issue to me.

Oh i absolutely agree with medicinal marijuana. Its a very good reagent for dulling various affects of illnesses. This is why i would vote for controlled legalisation, rather than total legalisation.

MAybe because they contribute to presidential and senatorial campaigns in america. And why would the executive and legislative branches get rid of one of their biggest contributors?

Alcohol and cigarettes were legalised back in the day when the health risks were unknown and so it became institutionalised. i think.

Slayer, although I agree with you please settle down, you're doing more harm than good.

About the addictivness, although technicaly marijuana is phsicaly addictive, that doesn't mean that you can't get hooked. Sure its not like crack were it can become the only way to get dopamine, but the rush of dopamine that you get from marijuana can be mentaly addictive.

Another reason why alcohol and tobacco have been illegalized is because it would be to difficult. one of the major reasons why prohibition failed was because alcohol was so popular that all it did was make half the country outlaws. If they legalize marijuana it would be nearly impossible to illegalize it if things got out of hand.

Finaly, although medical marijuana has some uses, many things it does can be substituted for other treatments. Chemotherapy is in no way a reason to legalize pot. My mom went through chemo 5 years ago, and although she still has lots of pain from the damage that chemo causes, there are other ways to help it. And incase you're saying that my mom my not have had as tough of a treatment as some people, she had one of the toughest regimens for her type of cancer.

Actually, most of the risks of cigarettes were known, just not by most of the people that used them. Plus it was a good chunk of money for the government.

But it causes people to act stupidly.

If people can use it responsibly(issued by doctors and such) then i think it should be fine. But! I believe there should be some way to keep track of who is taking the drugs and how much he uses daily. Strict rules when it comes to that.

IDK I never want to take drugs, but making them legal would create issues as people might die from heart attacks and such, and people would put stuff in your drinks.... I think it's fine how it is..

wow someone has been grave digging O.o

lol. i think we all realized that this issue had been discussed enough. s we let the thread vanish into the archives.

I think some drugs, eg: hash, weed and other soft drugs, should be legalised. I've dabbled myself and I haven't become a pale, skinny, man on the end of his pitiful rope etc etc. So long as they are taken in moderation there is no real harm done. And to be honest, cigarettes are much more addictive and do at least as much damage, so there is no reason for one to be legal and the other illegal. Finally, some drugs genuinely do lead to a good time with little or no consequences, (except a bad case of "the munchies") so why not?

actually marijuana has more permanent sideffects than the munchies. studies are showing that it is far more potent than we thought. it can cause severe permanent damage to short term memory.

and then some drugs have free radicals in them that are extremely damaging. MPP+ being such an example, found in certain synthetic "designer" drugs. MPP+ destroys cells in the substancia nigra in the brain. which controls dopamine productions and delivery. in other words it cna cause parkinson like diseases.

I just don't like it when the government says what I can and can't do when it comes to my own personal habits, when they don't affect anyone else.

I mean, the government saying I can't steal makes sense, because that hurts someone else unfairly. But when they say that I can't smoke what I want to, they are going too far. Me smoking marijuana (which I don't) doesn't afffect anyone else, so why does the government need to get involved for any reason?

That's almost the same thing as making sunbathing illegal because it can cause skin cancer.

I like your point Dantrag......it´s very harsh here in sweden what "big brother" says to you...one time the authorities even told us how many slices of bread we should eat per day.....

Is big brother more of a slang term or is it what some authorities actually call themselves? Because if it is the latter, stay away from the television. Anyways, Wurlon, about the put things in your drinks, you are probably basing that off of the big news scare in the seventies in which appearently people where putting aspirins in our cokes (which had no real side effects, other than getting rid of your headache). I don't personaly see this as that scary, because not many people have any incentive to put cocaine in my Ice Tea.

And on to your point Dantrag, I completely agree. Why should they be able to tell me what I do or don't do in my house on my own time? And what could happen? All that would really happen is me settling an addiction that may hurt me over time. And why am I not allowed to do one or to hits of a drug but I'm allowed to smoke ten thousand cigarettes?

Big Brother is what we call authorities when they mess around trying to tell us what or what not to do....

I once got a kind of drug in my drink, I was in my twenties....I got a really weird reaction....it was on a ferry..and I tried to jump off board all the time so some sailor-guys had to take me in with force......my friends got scared....

Big Brother is from the book 1984, it was the name of the supreme ruler who may or may not have existed.

They've been doing studies on kids and inhalents, and too many kids are dying. 1/20 kids who take in that keyboard cleaner stuff died their first try. If weed was legal then that would stop.

Wow, that's pretty awful Minque. I feel kind of stupid after saying my last post, though I won't edit and stand by my words. Tough I do really feel sorry for you.

Also, sadly doomed one, many people would say that's just a stupid chain mail that's been going around, but it's true. 100% true. I have checked many urban legend sites and sites that declare legitimacy of chain mails (especially Snopes) and have found each study has found that is true.

I didn;t receive it by chainmail, I looked it up myself for my last debate on drugs.

Thanks red...now from that moment I don´t leave drinks unattended....

Talking about drugs, from 1st july this year we here got that regulation that says no smoking in restaurants, pubs bars or public places...indoors, I think that is not bad, because even though I´m a smoker I really don´t like smoky pubs and bars....so I always go out for a smoke even at home so it´s really not a problem, just a good thing I reckon..

I agree... Here in Norway we have had that Smoking Law a while now and it is working very good. I'm not against smoking, but its at least good to have smoke free enviorments in pubs, resturants etc. Many people here in Norway thinks its actually better to sit outside smoking anyway - at least in the summer

BTW...

Some more about drugs, as I've said before I've met a guy that have been a user of drugs. He's life was totally crashed, his parents did it and it ruined him to. And now he have changed and started a help organization for those who use drugs. On a presentation he took Curt Cubain for a example...

When you take drugs it will slowly kill you, and IMO I think its better to use the normal adrenalin you have in your body. For example by doing stunts or what ever that gives you a real kick insted of taking drugs that can have a much more negative effect then dying while performing a stunt or something that gives u that normal adrenalin kick, many have said that. Taking drugs one time, one time only doesn't really hurt but as you take more and more it will use up for adrenalin in your body, and it will take several weeks to get the adrenalin and the other "chemicals" back. One of those "chemicals" or what I can call it is what makes you happy, and if you have taken drugs to much these can get totally destroyed, and that means you can actually never get that happy feeling again - leading to that many people who have used drugs take suicide.

So I think that drugs should be only allowed in medical use, because here in Norway some drugs that help against diseases are not allowed and people actually violates the law to get their hands on them to get better....

Yes! It´s lovely to sit outside...and in winter you can always take your coat on when going out.....or just don´t go out!!! One less cigarrette......w00t!

Well, coke can cause obesity, cigarettes cause cancer, sun causes skin cancer, caffeine causes hyperactivity, mobiles and microwaves cause radiation poisoning,coronation street causes suicide..... Just about everything has some long term ill effect. I've been smoking for a few years and I have no problem remembering stuff. Just so long as you don't smoke as much as Cheech or Chong you'll be fine. When the government says that kind of thing about long-term side-effects, I think they mean if you do lots and lots, not just the ocasional joint.



Well said.

Some good points there... Yes... But of course drugs can effect those around you they fall in the wrong hands when its legal! But if it should be made legal people should really have some knowledge about what drugs do to you, not all drug-users never knew what it did to them until they was addicted to it...

Here in Canada we too have a no smoking in public places law. Personnaly I think it's great, and most smokers I talk to don't mind it because they don't have to always put cigarettes out because of people with allergies and such. Also, just a little fun fact, it's about ten years in jail or 250,000 dollers if you are caught smoking in a non smoking area.

You must be kidding!! 10 years in jail?? 250000$??? For just smoking a cig in a non smoking area???? holy crap.....i don´t think the punishment is that big here...hmm but i surely won´t try it though...

The government controls it because not everyone is nice, some people would make kids do drugs to get them hooked on it and buy it for their lives and such. I personally think someone that does drugs when I don't would affect me, as it's peer pressure to do it too, which I really don't want to. Besides, people would be overdosing all the time, if those very potent drugs were released they could die. Freedom has many definitions, and unfortunately the government lost them alongside cheap oil prices.

Although that is maximum. But it is increadibly rare that you are charged with this crime, people here know not to smoke in non-smoking areas and beacause usually if someone sees you smoking, you are told to put it out or leave, they don't immediatly call the cops. Also, some places I believe have smaller punishments.

oh..I would hope so....it´s not as if you killed someone..well at least not immediately but maybe in the long run you do.....yourself!

I'm still lookin for the cheap oil...

Anyways, if "soft" drugs were legal, then "hard" drugs would become the new marijuna. Us humans love to test our limit...

Weed should be legal, all the other stuff like cocaine and heroin should stay illegal.

I personally am against any kind of drug use whatsoever... but it pretty much comes down to this... You have to draw a line somewhere. Some people think the line is too much others think its not nearly enough. Take speed limits for example. Most of us can easily drive safely at 75 mph as we can at 65 or 55, however, when you look at everyone as a whole statistically a line is drawn at a certain speed for a certain type of road because thats where the statistics say the fewest accidents will occur. Pretty much the same with drugs IMO. Can some people moderately use marijuana safely and occasionally... probably. However, most studies show people abuse it fantastically given the choice and end up destroying their own lives as well as those around them. Society is better off without a doubt that it remain illegal.

just my two cents..

Well said Neela... I said something about this earlier.. like a month ago

Drugs should be legal purely for the fact that people should be allowed freedom of choice, as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights, and if someone abuses drugs, I say too bad for them. People abuse all sorts of things. Their partners, alcohol, food. tv, ect. It's the nature of some people that they are easily habit forming, it doesn't mean tat everyone should be under lock and key because you always have a few idiots around!

There is nothing wrong with using marijuana. I use it every day and Im damn proud to say I do. I have a chronic painfull debilitating disease. My pain is unresponsive to morphine(pharmaceutical heroine) but is responsive to cannabis. This subject were talking about is the greatest conspiracy of our times. Marijuana does not cause brain damage in fact its nuero-protective. If you give 10 mice marijuana and 10 mice nothing(control). Then put them underwater(drown them) untill enough time has elapsed that would cause brain damage. The mice without marijuana would either be dead(I think 5 normal mice died), brain damaged or dead. The stoner mice would survive and have little or no brain damage. I will back this up with articles (there are more out there if you care to look)...

1.) http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/899/1/274

2.) http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/29...xanabinol.shtml

3.) http://apu.sfn.org/content/AboutSFN1/NewsR...nnabinoids.html

Just do a google search on Marijuana and neuro protective and you will get hundreds of similar articles.

This is the biggest reason for the conspiracy. It goes back to 74.....

1.) http://www.alternet.org/story/9257/

2.) http://projectcensored.org/publications/2001/22.html

The Nixon administration ordered that the labarotory that did this research along with its library be burned to the ground.

Without marijuana Id be dead.

all veyr well and good, but ina ll of them the compounds are isolated from teh rest of the plant and are taken in not by smoking but by injection. it is the smoking that is harmful a double edged sword persay.

I have no objection against the medicinal properties of marijuana but i don't agree that smoking the plan is the best method fro obtaining the chemicals since combustion alters the chemical structures of compounds and also releases others that should not realy be in the body such as resins and tar etc. I think cannibis compounds should be legalized but the selling of the dried leaves of the plant for smoking shouldn't, since they can make pills of THC and of cannabinoids, or injections.

out of curiosity kaleem whatichronic painful debilitating disease do you have if you don't mind me asking. just curious.

I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome and Autonomic Dysfunction.

http://www.skinatlas.com/eds.htm

http://www.reumatologia-dr-bravo.cl/para%2...DIAGCRITJHS.htm

Without going into great detail it has destroyed my life.

Im sorry but you are wrong.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_57309

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/medica...ions/cancer.cfm

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread7632.shtml

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Marijuana ciggarettes were used as a treatmaent for asthma before it was outlawed.
They sold pre rolled(by Glaxo smith kliene) joints in US pharmacies over the counter for asthma.

http://www.pdxnorml.org/ARRD_asthma_1975.html

thank god, they know better nowadays, and theres better medicine around, that doesnt involve smoking something that could make you paranoid.

i dont want to start talking about pros/cosn of marijuana, if you want to smoke marijuana, do it, but dont try to tell others, how fine it is, and how healthy or whatnot, or even get them to try it out.

you can show me thousands links, where it is stated how good marijuana is. guess what, i can pull out another thousand links which say otherwise.

i dont see a reason for legalizing the use of marijuana as a drug. you can already buy stuff that is made out of weed, like clothes and so on... so thats not what im talking about. if you want to smoke it, then you have to accept the fact that this is not legal. but no ones gonna arrest you for just smoking/eating it - it least where i come from.

Im not saying you should smoke pot for asthma.LOL. I was just pointing out that weve been lied to. Marijuana is a safe and harmless drug.

If anything this is why it should be legal and aspirin should be outlawed.

HOW DANGEROUS IS MARIJUANA
COMPARED WITH OTHER SUBSTANCES?

Number of American deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following selected causes nationwide, according to World Almanacs, Life Insurance Actuarial (death) Rates, and the last 20 years of U.S. Surgeon Generals' reports.

TOBACCO 340,000 to 450,000

ALCOHOL (Not including 50% of all highway deaths and 65% of all murders) 150,000+

ASPIRIN (Including deliberate overdose) 180 to 1,000+

CAFFEINE (From stress, ulcers, and triggering irregular heartbeats, etc.) 1,000 to 10,000

"LEGAL" DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from legal, prescribed or patent medicines and/or mixing with alcohol - e.g. Valium/alcohol 14,000 to 27,000

ILLICIT DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from all illegal drugs. 3,800 to 5,200

MARIJUANA 0 Deaths in recorded history.

(Marijuana users also have the same or lower incidence of murders and highway deaths and accidents than the general non-marijuana using population as a whole. Crancer Study, UCLA; U.S. Funded ($6 million), First & Second Jamaican Studies, 1968 to 1974; Costa Rican Studies, 1980 to 1982; et al. LOWEST TOXICITY 100% of the studies done at dozens of American universities and research facilities show pot toxicity does not exist. Medical history does not record anyone dying from an overdose of marijuana (UCLA, Harvard, Temple, etc.).

"only trust statistics, youve faked yourself!"

are you sure there are 0 deaths? really sure? what about car accidents that result from marijuana use? you know, marijuana makes you tired and slow - thats why yuo tend to drift away on a coach while smoking joints. what if you kill 3 other people in another car?

what you are telling is that marijuana is harmless... you are right! it doesnt kill you! if you mix it with tobacco, you might get cancer, but hey, the marijuana itself doesnt kill you! thats right!


ive been smoking marijuana for years, so i know what we are talking about (i stopped smoking it 3 years ago however)

You should never drive intoxicated (on anything).

I think its kind of funny how everyone who posts in this thread has to proclaim
"BUT I NEVER USED MARIJUANA" after their comment.

Its so funny! Is the stigma of pot smokers that all of you have built up in your mind so bad you have to put as much distance as possible.

Now thats what I call brainwashing. Ill join in too.

I NEVER SMOKED MARIJUANA.















I just liked the smell.LOL

please re-read my post:



funny thing is, when i used to smoke it, i used to argue just like the same as you do now, with all the "but why is alcohol legal" and "marijuana does not make addictive and does not kill you" arguments. and i know people who still smoke it and pull out those exact same arguments all the time. think again about the brainwashing thing.

man, if you want to smoke, do it and have fun. i never said thats a bad thing to do, but its not a good thing neither.


thats all from me on this topic. argo out!

Sure, maybe if America was a democracy, but it's not, its a constitutional republic, there's a big difference. I've never seen the right to use drugs in the constitution, therefore there is no reason for it to be legal. If you want a democracy, leave.

Sure, but that doesn't nullify his point at all.



"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

the states should do their jobs and stop trying to control everything.




so because he wants to change what he thinks is wrong in our country, he should leave? I think the opposite. I think he should try to make a difference and make this country a place he would like living in better.

And besides that, where would he go? I can't think a any country that is a true democracy.

1. he was emplying that he had the right and under a democracy he would( more in answer for #2)

2. states or the people, not states and the people, It's saying that if neither the constitution or the state say something about it it's up to the people, but the states have outlawed, therefore it isn't up to the people.

3. I was saying that if he wants unlimited individual rights then leave because that will never (and should never) happen here.

1. see 2.


2. And I was saying that the states should drop it and let the people decide for themselves, hence my statement that the states should get off of our backs. They could be putting money to far better use than drug law enforcement.

3. No, if that's what he believes, then he should stay and try to make it a place he would rather be in. Even a Republic allows that.