Never understood how Heimskr used to get away with it.

Do the elves take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? YOUR VERY LIIIIIVVEEESSS

-grabs popcorn-

The other problem: both sides have allied with some pretty screwed up candidates for Jarl.

I hate both Laila Law-Giver and Maven Black-Briar. The same can be said for Igmund of Markarth and Thongvor Silver-Blood.

And given Ulfric's torture at the hands of the Thalmor during the Great War, is it any wonder he has become so determined to have Skyrim secede?

I would like it if I could rearrange the entire set of Jarls. Korir is an alright guy, if he was in any city other than Winterhold and wasn't dealing with his own prejudices from the collapse. Vignar Gray-Mane is a retired Companion and would be good any place he doesn't have a chance to deal with his former best friend and now worst enemy.

We can send Korir to Riften, let him actually handle the excessive corruption and make the city at least moderately viable as a place to live and do business. Send Vignar Grey-Mane to Markarth, let the old soldier and capable administrator find a more sustainable and legitimate method of ending the Forsworn Rebellion. With that, two cities with incapable leaders are given jarls that are reasonably competent and significantly more ethical than the local alternative.

I'd let Dengeir of Stuhn resume his position as Jarl of Falkreath, and replace Skald with Brina Merilis in Dawnstar.

Brunwulf Free-Winter is definitely a better candidate for Jarl of Windhelm than Ulfric, but Idgrod Raven-Crone would remain Jarl of Morthal, with Kraldar becoming Jarl of Winterhold. Balgruuf, of course, remains Jarl of Whiterun, and for his services to Skyrim and support of the Dragonborn, gains the Dovahkiin's backing for High King of Skyrim. Elisif has to stay in power in Solitude, but given the amount of influence some of her court has, making Sorli the Builder her Steward would be an effective tempering of Elisif's impulsiveness and a balancing factor for Stormcloak and Imperial supporter alike.

As for Balgruuf, well, by this time the Dovahkiin should be able to privately remind six of the Jarls (Brina in Dawnstar, Dengeir in Falkreath, Vignar moving to Markarth, Korir moving to Riften, Brunwulf in Windhelm, and Kraldar in Winterhold) that they are Jarl because the Dovahkiin made them Jarl. What a Dragonborn makes, a Dragonborn can Un-Make. Idgrod seems to see something worth considering in the Dovahkiin, her judgement and relationship to the Dovahkiin should be enough to convince her. Elisif can then be marginalized into seeing the writing on the wall.

Provided the Dovahkiin doesn't just hand over the Jagged Crown, but does something smart, say, stashing it at High Hrothgar until the Moot is called. Then simply walking out with it and placing it on Balgruuf's head in front of the other Jarls, with a "Come At Me!" gesture if anybody is dumb enough to object. Balgruuf is enough of a loyalist to reputably claim loyalty to the Empire, so if Tullius complains, there would be far less guilt involved in simply killing the general.

Which leaves us with Ulfric. For him, a Trial of Thu'um before the Greybeards, for using their teachings in a manner inconsistent with their philosophy. He doesn't deserve death, per se, but should be exiled. For, say, five to ten years.

In Atmora.

With all the other die-hard Stormcloaks,

And the Talos-worshippers that need to be hidden from the Thalmor.

Maybe sort through them, separating the ones willing to learn discretion and loyalty for service to a suitably reformed group of agents. Those that insist on a more open opposition to the Thalmor could be sent to join their brethren on a boat trip.

North. To Atmora.

Where I should be able to hide about 50,000 of them.

Maybe let them learn the Thu'um for the purpose of war.

Say, from 30 or so Dovah that have been dominated but not killed by a Dovahkiin that has the greatest Voice on Mundus right now.

Let them practice Ice Form. On floating wooden structures. See what they can do with it. Who knows?

They just might be able to make something. Or ten.

I just might be able to get what I want.

A curb-stomping Dragonborn's Legion and Navy with attached Air Cavalry to give me heavy campaigning with rapid deployment abilities and deep-striking capabilities to project power in a method not seen since Tiber Septim trudged the Numidium across the sea floor to sack Alinor.

It will be written on the Elder Scrolls in fire and blood. It will be biblical.

Laila is fine but I hate maven.





He reminds me of the prophet from Knights of the nine

I'm quite surprised he hasn't been dragged away though. Occasionally I sit down and listen to him rant.

Laila is an incompetent moron who cannot properly run her city. For that, she would merely earn my dislike.

But instead, she calls herself "Law-Giver," and her city, Riften, is the greatest den of vice and vagrancy in all of Skyrim. The guards tried to charge me money just to get in. The sheer amount of corruption makes her very moniker a complete backfire that I lose all respect for her.

And the one redeeming quality she could express? Being a part of the system and simply using the title ironically or as part of a propaganda routine? Nope! She honestly believes the cacat that she's peddling. But now matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd.

Bring on Korir.

If you hang around Riften for a while it becomes clear that Maven's running the show anyways.

She's definitely a horrible jarl, but she's not as snobby as maven at least...

I feel as if Laila just NEVER goes outside. If she ever did, she'd see everyone getting held up by (crappy at their jobs) thieves. Then a candle might appear above her head and she'd go "Oh, maybe I AM clueless. Time to turn this around!"

I voted Independent...

Simply because I think all the options presented for in-game ruling need to be kicked in the head...

Surely by taking no side all your doing is choosing the violent status quo of a brutal civil war that will drain Skyrim and its people of its resources and, unless the situation is resolved soon, result in the usual famines that follow a civil war and probably end with the Thalmor winning? So, by voting for no side, aren't you just voting for the Thalmor?

I hate the Thalmor but love the High Elfs as a race. I respect the Stormcloaks but serve and honour the Empire.

Oooo it's like the voice of Galmar himself

McBadgere? What do you have to say for yourself, elf-lover!

@Phoenix Indeed, they are a handsome race ain't they. That loading screen shot of the high elf (albeit in Thalmor robes) looks so cool. So arrogant though, that biatch Taarie in Radiant Raiment, my god.

My characters have different ideas about the war. Only two have picked sides.

Jensa the Nord is not one of Skyrim’s great thinkers. She went to Windhelm to curse at Jarl Ulfric over the Roggvir situation and ended up joining his cause. She didn’t really want to kill the Legion’s Nords, she just wanted a crack at the Thalmor. After the war she realized that the Empire might have been a better choice.

Rowan Varrus the Imperial thinks that only a united Empire will be able to defeat the Thalmor. She joined the Legion.

I’m sure I would end up supporting the Empire in the long game against the Thalmor. As they say, sometimes you have to sleep with the devil.

I'm opting less for 'voice of Galmar' and more 'voice of thinking your choice through to the end'. Hell, even siding with the Empire is a better choice for Skyrim as a whole, as at least it will bring about some degree of stability to the region; taking no side means that you essentially choose to keep the civil war going in the same stalemate it's trapped in, which is exactly what the Thalmor want as that neuters two potential threats to them.

I have to vote independent, but still against the Thalmor, because I both like and dislike all sides, and that's what Ekali is going to be as far as it's possible. I'd have voted for the Stormcloaks a year ago, but a lot have changed since then.

I've got several characters who're involved with the whole war against the Thalmor and between the Empire and Stormcloaks, and the only ones who've actually taken a side are actually helping or used to help the Thalmor. Though that's just because the Thalmor are paying them a lot. Those two are Caoilinn and Dar'Ilthi. Caoilinn might show up in my fanfics eventually, Dar'Ilthi will play a rather big role.

On to my reasoning, the people who lead the Imperial's and Stormcloak's are both a bunch of idiots for the most part. Perhaps not the Imperials, as they're simply trying to put down the uprising. But they're still Thalmor pawns, and as such do not have my respect. Ulfric's a racist and generally very impolite, which I see very well since I rarely play humans. Helping either side would just mean that I help the Thalmor, as I by doing so kill a lot of people and decrease the amount of soldiers that could be used to fight the Thalmor. Not doing anything would also help the Thalmor, because that'd just mean that the civil war goes on and on and they stay occupied with each other while the elves get to do what they want. So I'm trying to figure out a way to end the civil war and unite everyone against the Thalmor, without picking either side.

In my version of the Elder Scrolls universe the ideal for me would be to first kill of Dar'Ilthi, though I'm not going to because she's way too good for the plot, and then somehow manage to unite the Stormcloaks and the Empire. Neither of them are strong enough to take on the Thalmor on their own, especially not after a civil war, and I doubt many would object to my saying that the Thalmor are the real threat. Even the Thalmor has to agree with that, because they're really smart, and not afraid to play dirty. That's also why I like the Thalmor, because they're so very good at manipulating their subjects. And now I got a really good idea for how Ekali can stay independent and still affect the outcome of the war...
Well, I don't think only the Empire and the Stormcloaks would cut it however, so even better would be to send coded messages(or something else that's secure) to other provinces and organize a simultaneous uprising in all of Tamriel. I doubt anyone likes to be bossed over by the Thalmor, so you'd just have to be good enough at convincing them that it could work or give them someone who they'd be willing to follow. But now I'm getting off track.

My point is that I'm against the Thalmor, but I'm not going to help the Empire or the Stormcloaks if all they do is fight internally. Ekali hates the civil war, and wants it to end, but she has no idea of which side she should help win. Dar'Ilthi is scary, and I don't really know what she's thinking helping the Thalmor, but I'm pretty certain that she's a sadist and a psychopath. Sorcalin prefers just to stay out of it and run his own business, though he doesn't like the Thalmor since he at least used to be one of the Psijic. Shakh is undecided. Felisa wants to live her own life in peace, and has changed her name so that people won't be able to track her down. And Caoilinn, she helped the Thalmor take Valenwood and doesn't really care who runs the different provinces as long as she gets paid.

How about we get an Altmer with the mind of a human to infiltrate the Thalmor and bring them down fro the inside?

Because that would, anatomically and logistically, be very difficult?

I like your thinking. I still voted Imperial because I do believe that there will be another war with the Thalmor. They are rebuilding and rearming and need to get the other provinces behind them. I'm sure the Thalmor know this as well, hence the Stormcloak rebellion.

Good point Elizabeth. There must be at least some High Elves who do not agree with the Thalmor initiative.

Like to have been already been flushed out by now though.

Ah, the joys of knocking one off at dinner time...A quick reply, damn you!!...Tch...

Aaaamywho...

As portrayed in Skyrim, the Empire is weak and Tithead Meade is a pathetic excuse for even a puppet Emperor; Ulfric Fatar$e is rude, dim and just no use as a ruler; Madmax and the Forsworn are just savages and don't deserve anything bar the smacking they get...The Thalmor are a bunch of arrogant tw@ts that should have been sent to the bottom of the sea the instant they got in range of the Cyrodiilic Navy...

What I should have said, is that rather than standing idly by and watching them all fight amongst themselves, I would, in fact, as the Dragonborn, kick the living sh*te out of all of them and then set up a ruling council, with many decent advisors and Jarls to do what is right...

Which is pretty much exactly what I'm heading for in my fanfic, just with the added bonus of the still existing Templars *Cough*...Knights of The Nine and a decent and strong Empire THAT LEATHERED THE SHITE OUT OF THE DAMNED THALMOR IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!! *pantpantpant*...

That do you?... ...

I couldn't agree with you more.

I have nothing against elves, I just despise the Thalmor. I'm not the biggest fan of Ulfric, Tulius, or Titus either. Even though I'm a stormcloak I find Ulfric a racist [censored]. Titus Mede is a coward(sorry Illydoor, but I think he's a coward ) And Tulius is just plain retarded (no offense to anyone).

Don't hold back McB, tell us how you really feel!

-laughs hysterically into pillow-

From the desk of Anduial, Arch-Mage of the College of Winterhold, and Thalmor Emissary to Skyrim


Arrogant tw@ts?! Us? Let us take a moment to review history, shall we? While the Argonians and Khajiit were bounding around on all fours baying at the moons we were exploring and mapping the continents of Tamriel. Torval the Pilot acquired the Eight Islands that today serve as the site of your White Gold Tower by teaching the beastfolk natives to read! I don’t remember men buying it back from us. You pitch your proverbial tent in my home and call me arrogant because I insist that it’s mine?! We built the great towers throughout this land. We provided a language, a history, and a culture which you have since usurped, and you have the nerve to speak of our arrogance!

For centuries Elves lived in harmony with humans. The Social History of Cyrodiil remembers that ‘Malcontents, dissidents, rebels, landless younger sons, all made the difficult crossing from Atmora to the ‘New World’ of Tamriel.’ These humans came and lived amongst us in harmony ... they did not come looking to usurp a land not their own. We accommodated every human who wanted to flee his own homeland for greater opportunity in our land. We asked only that they respected our laws and sovereignty, which we had every right to do!

Only in Skyrim did this accommodation break down. Ysgramor and his ilk fled civil war in their native Atmora only to make war here in Tamriel. They arrived, looked around, and arrogantly stated that, not only was Skyrim now theirs, but High Rock and Morrowind were now their personal property as well! It mattered not to them that Elves and men had existed there in harmony for centuries. Is that not the very height of arrogance? Do not speak to me of ‘Skyrim belongs to the Nords!‘ It never did! Were it left to me I would send every ‘proud son of Skyrim’ back to their true mother in Atmora ... and make them learn to live off of a teat too cold to suckle!

Can't we try to so from the PoV of both sides

The Altmer are a bit arrogant.....

And the other races are quite single-minded....

But come on. Walk in the shoes of your enemies for once.

(KOB, don't sweat it, I don't believe him to be entirely serious... ...And, neither was I for that matter... ...It is, when all is said and done...Just a bloody game... ...)




Yes, well, I believe that what you're talking about through most of that are the Altmer...Not the Thalmor...I believed that the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion were not representative of all Altmer? as in, surely all the Altmer that were born and lived away from the Summerset Isles or Valenwood were quite happy with where they were with the countries as they found them before the black boots decided to try plant themselves on innocent and the unable to fight back necks of the general populace of many countries?...

My problem is with the Thalmor, not the Altmer in general...


(While I'm sure there's going to be a lenthy riposte about how the Thalmor are the original Altmer, I have no idea, as it's only a game I play and I tend to have just the crib notes version of the history to be able to refer to ...It is, only a game... )...

@McB - The CharlieBrownTeacherVoice almost knocked me out of my chair!

@KoB - I don’t know McB all that well (yet), but I have seen enough of his posts to know that most of what he says comes from a good place (the ellipses are a dead giveaway). I guarantee you that nothing said in a public forum is enough to cause me to hold a permanent grudge (but that dreaded CharlieBrownTeacherVoice sure does come close ). My own posts may have come across as harsh, but that is because I was channeling a character who happens to be a Thalmor representative. Which is why everything said from him comes:



From the Desk of Anduial, Arch Mage of the College of Winterhold, and Thalmor Emissary to Skyrim:


Isn’t this sadly typical. I try to engage you in thoughtful debate but my words fall like so many potatoes around your ears! However, I must concede your point. Perhaps my brethren have been somewhat unyielding in their efforts to reinvigorate the pride of those elves asleep to the knowledge of all they have lost. Perhaps our ‘black boots’ might have tread more lightly around the necks of those thus afflicted were our patience not stretched beyond all endurance by the interminable ages spent waiting to reclaim that which is ours by right.

I shall now spare you the lengthy riposte about a fact that you already seem to know ... and, since I can see by the direction of the voting that my kind is not welcome in this place, I will retire.

What about the Night of Tears?

Ysgramor only returned with the 500 companions, and a mind for all out war, after the night of slaughter that only left him and his two sons!

...

'Tis true... BWAHAHAA!! Told ya...

Ach, my dear Archmage, let us away to the Tavern then?...My shout...We can discuss all this difference of philosophy until the cows come home...

This is probably going to start a full out war, but.....


No offense to any Thalmor fans out there but....

I honestly think the Thalmor need to be taught a lesson. They have no reason to act all high and mighty. Being snobby makes them more "unworthy"(if you must call it that)

To add a slightly maverick opinion, we never thought any of them were worth the price of a cup of mead to be honest.
Mostly they were all just in Niamh's way.

As a Bosmer, she considered the Thalmor to be way too uptight and full of themselves; the imperials - well let's face it they were going to have her executed, and the Stormcloaks were just a bunch of ignorant farmers in tin hats.
She had marginally more empathy with the latter, largely because they didn't try to kill her on sight, most of the time.

I guess she felt closest in nature at least to the Forsworn, but the thing was they were far too much fun as sport, so the relationship was doomed from the start...

I choose Stormcloaks without having played the game. I don´t think it´s racist to defend one´s own country, those are just modern ideas with no rhyme or reason. I would call invaders of my own country whatever name I could think of, and believe me, I do...

Most people call them racist for hating all elves and shoving the Dunmer population of their capital into a ghetto. Considering how wonderfully hateable the Thalmor are, I don't think anybody is calling them racist for trying to fight them.

Thank you for clarifying I know I shouldn´t speak up when I haven´t even played the game, I just get ticked off whenever I see the word 'racist'. It gets used too often these days I think. I hate Ford Ka, does that make me a racist?

But lets not get into that discussion too far. Suffice it to say I often root for whatever population is native to whatever land is being discussed.

Fair comment .

skyrim is like this though , it does not bother me though because it dosent affect you as such .

it was nice to go to raven rock and see na near all-dark elf population , really kick in the teeth for the nords eh ?

Gotto love the dark eleves , arnt evil like most of them.

Interestingly only by a slim majority are the imperials leading..

i honestly cannot belive that beth would scrap the empire , the empire has been at the root of every game.

Mirocu , i to thought the stormcloaks were the right way , i admit i still have got sympathy for ulfric

but . ultimatly if the humans are going to survive they need a united front , skyrim is like the USA was to Britain during the world wars . somebody once said britain was the hero , france the martyr , america the victor .

cyrodill (france) is strong but it is , for one thing , on the border of the thalmor ,it has a large army and a strong economy , but ultimatly not as strong as the thalmore , its also for nationlistic .

When war comes cyrodill is the first place to bear the brunt , just like france was ,Britain was able to keep up its power because a. it had france as a meatshield and b . it has the channel to stop a direct land invasion ( im british dont accuse me of being anti-british )

cyrodill (fr) will always be the firts to fall in the war m this is where most of the battles will be fought , only if the cyrodill is tottally under occupation ( this almsot happended during the great war , only bruma held out because it had skyrim protecting it) then the thalmore could of launched an attck on the rest of the empire.

This was basically what happended with france , however the CORE differance was britain was detrmined and it had a very powerful defense , germany could not invade because a . it lost the air war and b. it couldnt defeat the royal navy , as such a land invasion was impossible.

with skyrim it differant , only with skyrim ( the united states) backing did cyrodill mamnage a turn-aorund in the war , if skyrim had not helped cyrodill would of lost the war .

If war came now and skyrim was indepedant , then the empire would lose , if ulfric united with hammerfell ( russia) and highrock ( Britain) then they might still be able to win the war , but the fate of humanity and creation itself would hang in the balance.

if britain , usa , fr , and of cource lets not forget russia , had not all united then they would of lost the war , like with hammerfell russia fought a bloody war of attrition that resulet in WW2 with 20 million soviets dead . france fought hard and slowly sapped the strength of germany , britain crushed germany trade , and it air/navy crippiled germany , it also lead a succesful land campain to help the french ( its worth mentioning the british empire candians here , who did exceptionally well )

the usa , fresh and still pumping out rersoureces when europe was exhasted , could basically just tank men into france , theres a question whether without america the war could of been won ( much more so in world war 2)

i see the four provence like the four powers , cyrodill is france with powerful army but it will always get overwhelmed , russia is hammerfel with determined warrirors whom can gradually beat the thalmor , high rock is britain with strong support armies and the crucial naval strength , skyrim is usa with powerful eco and lots of soldiers.

if you dont have one you lose , its that simple.

sorry i have gone on , but thats how i see it.

Indeed, the empire has been a major thing throughout. Although I don´t really like big empires I have a hard time picturing TES without it.

you could say the usa is an empire

Yes, and I never said I liked it The politics behind it that is, I´m fine with the country

Forgive me , your local time is just under an hour ahead of mine meaning you are not british ? From whence do you hail ?

I´m within that time zone but I´m not British. I hail from the Nordic provinces

your from greenalnd or iceland ? unless we are counting the netharlands as nordic.

this is going to annoy me now.

ahh but this could be a trick! if your from greenland you could say you hail from denmark as well...

or you could live on the faroe islands....

hmm sneaky sneaky

We certainly do not. Sweden here

swden is not Gmt , i just looked it up , i was quite wrong XD

sweden eh ? nice

Mirocu, I’m afraid it’s not quite like an invasion. Many Nords support their Empire, and many Stormcloaks are ex-Legion according to comments within the game.

My characters choose for themselves, if they have an interest. Jensa (a Nord) fought for the Stormcloaks and came to regret it. Mikke of Green River (another Nord) will likely join the Legion if she ever finishes up with her dragon responsibilities. Rowan Varrus (an Imperial) recently joined the Legion. All of my others deeply resent the Thalmor at the least and view the Empire as Skyrim’s best bet despite present difficulties.

And my Breton characters who hail from the Reach would never trust Ulfric, the butcher of Markarth.

Well, like I said I know I shouldn´t speak up when I haven´t even played the game. I simply don´t have enough information. Sorry ´bout that.

Oh, I didn’t mean it like a scold. Just friendly information.

No worries, friend. I´m greatful for your information

its fair to say , like all conflicts , the civil war is a complex one and one which many people have differant motives for playing a part in .

officially the war happended because of a refusal to stop worshipping talos , and a disgust at the empire . gradually it evolved into a move for total independance rather than ridding skyrim of the thalmore . some have joined for nationlistic purposes , others for riches and glory , the war has divided everybody into : camp empire and camp stormcloak

and that wasnt the actual motive of the war , its just how it developed

Also most people think ( users i mean) that ulfric stormcloak , the man rallying / behind the whole resistance movement , is a manipulative tyrant whom only declared war for his own motive rather than for skyrim.

but the empire played dirty with ulfric , its known as the "markarth incident"

basically during the great war the forsworn ( a freedom-fighting fanatical group dedicating to making the reach an independant nation because they claim it was stolen from them) took over markarth , in desperation the empire turned to ulfric to remove them.

For 2 years they ruled the reach and the time was actually quite prosperous , ulfric dutifully obeyed the empire and won the war against them , the imperial gained control again.

but his price was high , he demanded that he and his people should be allowed to worship talos , but if they allowed this the empire faced another great war months after it had ended.

The empire lied , they painted ulfric as a child-slaughtering , woman-raping , bloodthirsty , savage nord . they denounced him and humiliated him.

Just to save their own skin , they betrayed ulfric and humilated him , after what he had done for them.

This is why i still have some sympathy for ulfric , what the empire did was wrong , and i struggle to forgive them for it.