Let's talk weapons.

I'm seeing increased speculation on the official Skyrim board that melee weapon skills are being changed from "Blade, Blunt" to "One hand, Two hand." I must say that this is probably one of the stupidest ideas I've ever seen, and will be surely angered if this is actually true.

Does anyone at Bethesda have any idea that wielding a sword is world apart from wielding a hafted weapon? Swords are designed for precision, whereas the hafted (axes, maces, etc) are more akin to brute-force application. This is what makes a knight different from a barbarian. Further combining of the weapon skills as this "One Hand, Two Hand" tosh is an affront to fantasy RPGs in general. I don't want a master-of-all-trades character, I want him to have actual skills and weaknesses! If he can wield a short blade and a war axe with equal skill simply because they require one hand to use... where the hell is the logic to that?! It's like saying that my mastery of the art of watching movies also gives me the skills needed to make one. That is not true at all!

Why can't Bethesda get it through their heads... too much streamlining is BAD. Oblivion is a case-in-point example of this, they removed or "streamlined" too much and resulted in a game that felt watered down. Here's how I would streamline the weapon skills:

-Short Blade
-Long Blade
-Hafted, One Hand
-Hafted, Two Hand

Four skills that make logical sense and add a sense of variety to the creation of your character. This way, axes and spears would at least fit into the streamlined skills, since they are in fact hafted weapons. Morrowind did have a little too much in terms of weapon skills available to you, but Bethesda went way too far with trimming those down in Oblivion, which only had two melee weapon skills, one of which making no sense at all, and removing spears entirely.

By the way, BethSoft... if you are going to improve on mounted combat in Skyrim, BRING THE DAMN SPEARS BACK!!! The main purpose of long-hafted spears and pikes in the medieval battlefield was to defend against a cavalry charge. If we are expected to fight horses without the aid of one of those quintessential medieval weapons, that is going to be a flat-out immersion killer for me. No one in their right mind would try to take down a charging horse-and-rider with a puny long blade... they'd get trampled before they even landed a blow.

I do approve of their changes to Archery, though, so not everything is bad.

This is solved with the perk system. If you prefer maces then you will choose perks that improve your ability with the mace. Same with blades. You first choose if you want to work with large or small weapons then specialize more when you choose your perk each time you level up.

The only problem I see with this is that some of the longswords are still one handed, but ones like claymores are two handed. They could divide the blades into one/two handed and then subdivide one-handed into short/long.

I really enjoy perks in the Fallout series, but are they fitting in TES? Having to go to trainers to better your skills as you did in Oblivion - that was realistic - cleaning out a couple dungeons and selling the items to earn the Septims to pay for training - it all fit perfectly. Experts training you for a fee makes sense in that setting, that era.

Perks may be great to have, but I don't see how that will be immersive in the TES universe. How do you explain sudden abilities that just appear after sleeping - I think they are trying to take what worked in Fallout and bring it into TES, and IMO that will ruin immersion.

Let's talk weapons.

I'm seeing increased speculation on the official Skyrim board that melee weapon skills are being changed from "Blade, Blunt" to "One hand, Two hand." I must say that this is probably one of the stupidest ideas I've ever seen, and will be surely angered if this is actually true.

Does anyone at Bethesda have any idea that wielding a sword is world apart from wielding a hafted weapon? Swords are designed for precision, whereas the hafted (axes, maces, etc) are more akin to brute-force application. This is what makes a knight different from a barbarian. Further combining of the weapon skills as this "One Hand, Two Hand" tosh is an affront to fantasy RPGs in general. I don't want a master-of-all-trades character, I want him to have actual skills and weaknesses! If he can wield a short blade and a war axe with equal skill simply because they require one hand to use... where the hell is the logic to that?! It's like saying that my mastery of the art of watching movies also gives me the skills needed to make one. That is not true at all!

Why can't Bethesda get it through their heads... too much streamlining is BAD. Oblivion is a case-in-point example of this, they removed or "streamlined" too much and resulted in a game that felt watered down. Here's how I would streamline the weapon skills:

-Short Blade
-Long Blade
-Hafted, One Hand
-Hafted, Two Hand

Four skills that make logical sense and add a sense of variety to the creation of your character. This way, axes and spears would at least fit into the streamlined skills, since they are in fact hafted weapons. Morrowind did have a little too much in terms of weapon skills available to you, but Bethesda went way too far with trimming those down in Oblivion, which only had two melee weapon skills, one of which making no sense at all, and removing spears entirely.

I do approve of their changes to Archery, though, so not everything is bad.

You know, if attributes still existed in this game I think I'd actually campaign to move Blade from being Strength-based to Endurance-based, because you do NOT need to be strong to effectively wield a sword. The power in the blade is built on technique... whereas the power in the haft is built on your biceps. See how those four skills make logical sense? Two worlds set apart as they should be, yet not overly limiting on the player's selection of weapons.

<snip>

You misunderstood my comment. I said to lump axes in with Blunt weapons and rename the skill hafted, while at the same time separating it into one-handed and two-handed components. I said nothing about tossing axes in with blades. I was merely commenting on the origins of the axe, which was simply an attempt to combine the cutting power of a blade with the crushing power of a club.

Now, personally, I have no problem with dividing Blade up into its four actual weapons (daggers, short blades, long blades, claymores), I'm simply saying from a gameplay perspective, this is a bit too limiting on the arsenal available to the player. We need to keep in mind that full-on realistic SCA combat is not the focus of this game (no matter how much I would like to see it) and that separating the Blade skill to that degree would only allow the player to be proficient in about 9-10 weapons, depending on how many variants Beth decides to create. This is why daggers and short blades were one skill in Morrowind, and Longswords and claymores as well. Keeping a decent balance of weapons available to the player to use allows the game to add more variety and spice to the experience. Separate the skills too much, and you stagnate the gameplay by making almost 80% of the weapons the player finds not worth as much because he isn't proficient in them. It's exciting to find a cool new blade that your character can use with fluency... we don't want to make that feeling once in a blue moon, else people would get bored and play less.

Essentially the skill division there IS Blade, One Hand and Blade, Two Hand. There are always going to be difficulties in getting everything condensed to the point where it makes sense but is still fun to work with. Longswords and Axes in this case are the oddballs, so there is always going to be a question as to where they are supposed to go to avoid having too many weapon skills, which will in turn lessen the impact of your character's power gains.

Remember, we play for fun, not to simulate real SCA combat. Compromises need to be made. I am simply proposing what I feel is the most reasonable solution to avoid the problem Morrowind had with too many weapon skills and the one Oblivion had with too few.

Well the same thing applies to leveling up in Oblivion. why are you suddenly stronger just after sleeping? why are you more intelligent just for sleeping? I do not think it will be any more or less immersive.

The perks you are offered (in the Fallout games) were based on the choices you made in placing blank points onto a skill category - no practicing of the skills needed to advance in them - that is what I am referring to when I say it will be less immersive.

BUT in Skyrim they are not the same as Fallout. Todd Howard said that you would need to have certain skills to unlock certain perks. If you used the mace a lot and like using it then you would choose perks that helped you use the mace. Perks for swords and bows would not be available except maybe some very basic low level ones. UNLESS you started using them a lot and built up your skill in them.

Ｉ　ｈｏｐｅ they make different attack-animations for different weapons. I was mildly disappointed in Onlivion by that. I mean seriously.. The Master-version of charging attack with maces didn't made any sense at all.

THRUSTING with a mace and axe simply ruined my world-perception. Really.

That is exactly how Fallout is, you do have to have your skills at a certain level to unlock perks affiliated with that skill - but you just place blank skill points onto that skill during your level-up to increase your skill, no amount of practice counts.

Did Todd Howard say you would have to practice your skills to enhance them? I'd like to see that interview - if they are still giving credit for practicing the skills then I withdraw my gripe.

One thing I didn't like about Fallout: New Vegas was that they only rewarded you with perks every other level-up - BUT :

That said, one thing I thought was great about Vegas and I thought an improvement over Fallout 3 = they give you bonus perks for practicing a skill. (only certain ones though). That gives you a reason to practice that was taken away in Fallout 3.

If Skyrim keeps the rewards in for practicing skills then I will be perfectly satisfied. (with that aspect).

Ｉ　ｈｏｐｅ they make different attack-animations for different weapons. I was mildly disappointed in Onlivion by that. I mean seriously.. The Master-version of charging attack with maces didn't made any sense at all.

THRUSTING with a mace and axe simply ruined my world-perception. Really.

He talked about a lot of that stuff in here:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/arc...ddhowardse.aspx

It's only audio and there isn't a transcript that I can see immediately.

Thank you King Coin, that was a great podcast. If I am understanding it correctly, practicing our skills will open up perks, not just placing blank points down during level-ups like in Fallout - so I withdraw my concern, lol. Thank you !!

Yep, I was doing a poor job explaining anyways, I should have just put up the link and saved everyone some time.

Lol, Todd Howard is trying to keep some of it under wraps till it is unveiled - I have the Game Informer magazine, saw their internet articles - listened to the podcast - still didn't have a lot of the answers - like he was very mysterious about the horses in Skyrim - he said we will be able to ride SOMETHING - and horses will be there but not necessarily to ride - What, will we be riding wooly mammoths? GAAAAH !!!

I'm glad he says he wants them to be useful in the game. If they are aiming for RDR quality then they will be almost a necessity.

I hope we will be able to ride them, I don't care if we are up in the snowy mountains - riding wooly mammoths will not enhance gameplay for me.

Yeah, if they are the only mount (mammoths) I'll be walking lol

Me too, and Maxical will have her ears pinned back as she walks, lol.

Me too, and Maxical will have her ears pinned back as she walks, lol.

I can just see that lol. She's cursing under her breath as she treks over a mountain.