So let's plan and discuss here as we usually do, then we avoid too much OOC in the playground.

I hope the caravan won't be off quite yet, Rianne is busy getting aquainted with Dralas..and she has not yet signed up!

Perhaps the caravan could be delayed by a day (bad ash storm? foodpoisoning from undercooked rat?) to give a bit more time for RPing in Balmora.

Anyway I'm too tired to read though and remember so is anyone kicking about the Eight Plates on their own? If so feel free to approach Rothan, or say and he'll approach.

Well, Eno is alone, sort of. I haven't rp-ed him past the point of renting a room at the eight plates. I'm going to set him down at the bar somewhere and continue carving his flute. He's not the type to approach strangers and start conversations, unfortunately.

But first, breakfast.

Thinking about it I'll wait until after the new year's celebrations to post as I don't know how long I'll be away for, I'll approach once I'm back at a computer. I don't want to get Eno stuck with an offline character for a few days...

And both the priests I know drink.

Dranas is doing his "one night stand", so don't expect to hear from him until morning comes. Unless somebody breaks into his new lady friend's house, or there's a big ruckus in town. He might stumble into the Eight Plates for breakfast, eventually.

OMG i didn't know the Erabenimsun would be offended by a helping hand! Hehe...well then it's an opportunity for some interesting interactions between those two!

Very well....let's see what happens next..hihi

I think it'd be a good idea to discuss the sort of route the caravan will take, and just how dangerous it'll be. I think it'd be interesting for there to be the danger of attacks along the way.

Turns out I wasn't away long..

I'd say the caravan should be hit by a big ashstorm (I think we discussed this) which will force them to take shelter and thus go off route and hit more trouble (outcast ashlanders probably though perhaps sixth house or even rouge telvanni). Possibly someone could pick up the blight off the storm too.

And from Balmora Foyada Mamea (sp?) is the best way, it will be more fun to rp and the way though from ald ruhn would be far from easy to take a caravan of guars down. If people want to go up via ald ruhn then we could but why not start there?

I like Olen's idea of being hit by an ash storm. Ash brings the ash monsters... we could make that a bit like the Mist.

Umm, the Foyada thingie. That's down past the Legion fort (Moonmoth?) south of Balmora, then turn left into the canyon, right? I think I'm going to load up the game and see if I can get to Ghostgate that way without any excessive levitation.

Also, I remember there being a Daedric ruin along the way, though I think that was pretty far along the route. Or maybe that was from a different path. It could make for some good tension though. Ash storm hits, the caravan hides in a Daedric Ruin, then finds out there are cultists. Cue diplomacy/panic/fighting. Or maybe not. Daedric ruins aren't exactly the kind of thing you would explore while at low levels. (Though on the other hand, we're not doing solo and game mechanics don't apply that much)

Of course, if we meet ash creatures in the storm, that would lead to some big drama as well. Cause weren't those supposed to be restricted to the Red Mountain region? (Even without the Ghostfence, I don't think Dagoth Ur's forces were spread out that far into Vvardenfell, excluding the occasional hide-out.) That would definitely stop some people from thinking it will be an easy trip.

Anyway, I'm going scouting now. See ya all later.


Edit: That went faster than expected. Although, I guess that speed 110 plus not stopping to get Cliffracers off my back helped a lot. Anyway, the foyada (turn left after passing Fort Moonmoth) goes practically straight to Ghostgate, without any paths branching off. At least, no paths that I saw. I went all the way with an Ash storm so my vision wasn't exactly perfect.

Anyway, while the path is straight, it is absolutely littered with rocks that require constant weaving. Even two Guars (without handlers) side by side will have difficulty navigating that, so I suggest that the caravan moves in a line of one Guar+handler wide. The path finally becomes clear of boulders about twenty seconds (at full dash) before Ghostgate itself becomes visible. There you could have three guars+handlers side to side with room to spare. But I suggest that maybe the clear area is the construction camp?

Also, just before the half-way mark, you run into a Daedric Ruin you practically have to go through. It's right in the middle of the path and blocks it pretty much completely. (Also, I got ambushed by 2 Dremora and 1 Flame Atronach hiding among the buildings. Just so you know) The entrance is at the top of a tower and requires two stairs to be navigated, with a hairpin-turn inbetween. While it might be possible for Guars to get up there, I don't think it would be easy, especially during an Ash storm. Even moreso if you don't know where the entrance is. (I spent a good three minutes running around looking for it) As for whether or not it is inhabited, I'll leave that up to you.

Well, it might be wider than that - remember that the in-game map is not to scale. If it were, Vvardenfell would be only about ten square miles big.

'Course, we could always take the long way 'round through Ald'ruhn. Or we could take a shortcut through the mountains. I have an idea as to how we might do that - it involves a pre-existing tunnel built by prospectors near what will soon be the Abaelun Diamond Mine (with the rationale being that it will enable travel to a certain future city that will soon be in between Balmora and Ald'ruhn). But that might be a bit too contrived. Besides, the more trouble we have getting there, the more fun it is.

We can run into sufficient trouble going up the Foyada. I don't even know that we need ash creatures laying an ambush until we get close to the base of Red Mountain--we could have some orc barbarians hanging out at the daedric shrine. In-game, if I recall properly, the shrine was populated by orcs, and I check and see if it was a shrine to Malacath, which would explain much. Could also have an attack by outcast ashlanders.

The open area before Ghostgate would be great for the campsite. In-game there were some Ashlanders camped nearby, so it makes considerable sense.

Even if the entrance to the shrine would be hard to find in a storm, the walls on the exterior would make for a good wind-break, so it would be a natural place to go for shelter.

Will there be a camp there when we arrive? I assumed we were heading to an already existant base with construction workers and other folk there.

If so there will have been other caravans and this one is hardly secret so it would be likely that someone will try to ambush it be than ashlanders or bandits.

We should also look to determine how long it'll take. I'll take a look at the maps over at the Imperial Library and determine how long it would actually be.

Personally, I think the more trouble we run into, the better. Bandits, Daedra worshipers, and maybe some crazed half-naked Dreamers or ash monsters. Besides, I kinda set you all up for a bad time with that conversation I posted yesterday.


EDIT: The whole trip looks to be about 60 miles, from measuring on the map. That'd be about a week's journey, by my estimate.

I'd hope to clear a lot more than seven miles a day even on very bad terrain with a baggage train, I'd say closer to three days but more due to problems on the way.

I'd certainly agree that we should only run into very minor sixth house things if we do - leaves another chance for them to be exciting later.

And we should make sure we don't overdo the opposition, we still have to win without godmodeing.

For 60 miles a week makes a lot more sense than three days. People are going to be walking... uphill... on uneven ground. Now, I can hike 20 miles a day for three days in a row without too much trouble--but I'm 25 and fit, a really fast hiker, and I'm doing that by myself. But unless everyone's going to ride a guar (instead of hauling goods on it), no caravan is doing 20 miles a day. Even without being attacked or ash storms.

20 miles a day was an overestimation but I think 7 is too few.

Really it depends on the ages and fitness of people in the caravan, and the long distance speed of a guar. I was working on twenty miles a day being a sensible pace for multi day walking but that doesn't really reflect a caravan. I wasn't considering delays, just travel time. How long do ashstorms last? It must be about 8 hours in game?

A caravan will be slow to get going in the morning, and to settle in the evening. Add in delays... let's say 15 miles on a really good day, 10-12 on an iffy day (one attack by a small party of Ashlanders, perhaps), seven or less for larger attacks, maybe no advancement at all in case of a really bad ash storm. (Why break camp? Be enough work keeping the ash from choking the guars' nostrils, etc.) That all sound reasonable?

I took a quick look in the shrine when I was there but encountered Dunmer, not Orcs. Of course, that's during Nerevarine-Morrowind, not Ghostfence-construction Morrowind.


For the hiking discussion, I have no experience so I'll let you folks figure it out. But I would like to add that Eno has a crippled leg. Even though he walks without a stick, he can't keep up if people do any forced marching or stuff.

As for this being the first caravan, it obviously isn't. The first one would (in my opinion) be entirely temple-controlled and carry only construction materials, workers and some supplies. There would be no civilians signing up and going for their own reasons like with our caravan. That also means there will be a camp waiting for us when we arrive.

As for the wideness of the foyada. I would have liked the cramped weaving between rocks myself, but if the caravan is a regular occurence, there might have been attempts at removing the rocks to widen the path. Perhaps not all the way, but at least the stretch travelled during the first day? Of course, since the map is not to scale, we could say that geographic features like the foyada are actually much larger (wider+deeper) and there is enough room to walk side-by-side even with rocks. (oh boy, now I get the Grand Canyon in mind!)

Oh, and the Daedric ruin should have been cleared out by force now that I think of it. No one in his right mind would send regular caravans along a route which has a point prominently marked on the map as 'ambush'. Heck it might even have turned into a half-way camp under supervision of the Temple/Houses, featuring an improvised stable to rest the Guars and enjoy shelter indoors!

Yeah, that makes sense with the ruin. And it fits with some of the dialogue/writing from Morrowind--in the years before Morrowind the ordinators spent much more time cleaning out the heretics from daedric shrines. But perhaps some angry daedra worshipers could cause trouble at the camp, you think?

Did you notice which daedra was worshiped there?

Sorry, no. Even if I had paid attention to the statue, I wouldn't have recognized it because I always mix them up. I could try to see if the Uesp has anything on it.

Edit: Assarnatamat, shrine to Mehrunes Dagon.

Alright. This is some good stuff. I think I'm going to work a bit of it into my next post, if you don't mind. Reconcile it with my last post, I'm thinking.

All good ideas. The camp in the shrine, attacks, etc. I like where we're headed. I also agree with Olen; keep the first attack pretty moderate so we can have crazier things happen later.

To speed things along, I suggest we all put our characters to sleep so the caravan can get going.

Agreed. We should resolve all current conversations and then get moving. Apelles has packed it in for the night, Has-no-Tail is asleep by the river bank, and Dranas Heleran is (cough, cough) occupied for the rest of the evening. We don't want to rush things too much, but we do want to get things moving.

Yes yes! i also like the ideas! camping in a shrine? Awesome!

And let's go to sleep then, I guess all char's are signed up for the caravan by now?

When you're character is done for the evening and you're ready for the caravan in the morning say so we can get things moving.


Mine is.

All tucked in, ears plugged, sheep's counted.

Dranas is ready for anything.

Rianne is sleeping safe and sound, so she's all ready for the wake-up call!

Apelles is ready to go.



On an unrelated note, I think I might create a character description of that Buoyant Armiger leader I introduced, just in case I want to give him his own POV post. I think, as traumatized as he must be from the last attack, his reaction and characterization might be interesting.

So...is that everyone?

Ehhh well Dralas should be somewhere as well, hopefully sleeping in his room, but except from him I think maybe we're all set

There's no one for him to rp with now so I think we can assume he is. Give it a few more hours and then someone post the next morning. Danny can always post something spanning the night before until the morning if he had unfinished things.

Hmm Dralas rp:ed with Rianne but we were asked to go to bed so......

Sounds good. I think Apelles should be at least ONE of the first people up. I've got some stuff to do - errands to run and whatnot, but I should be able to get something in by the evening.

Another question - just how big is this caravan in actuality (NPCs included)? And how many escorts should there be for it? That's a number that I think it would be nice to settle on.

Looking at the people going (ie services the outpost camp will have enough people to support) we're looking at a significant population in the camp, maybe a bit over a hundred (minimum) once you include leaders, buerocrats, labourers, skilled workers, gaffers, merchants, cleaners (all that rubbish/'human waste' has to go somewhere), soldiers, dealers, 'nighttime entertainers', cooks, and other hangers on.

Now, this is the seventh? (ish?) caravan to head up there so the average of the other six will have been about 20 perminant residents plus guards and guides and scouts and caravaners who were just there to get people and materials to the camp in one piece.

I'd say there would need to be about 10 guards for a caravan this size and a fair number of caravaners who just move materials and goods, almost certainly they will outnumber the people who intend to stay there for any length of time.

This is all minimum's though, could be more. Top limit is probably in the region of 300 as more would require sufficent infrastrcute as to be worth building and clearing a road to it. By the same calculation that would mean an average of 50 people per caravan would have to remain in the outpost making the number of guards proportionally higher and also the caravaners (though with a higher proportion of food/drink/etc than of building materials).

Of course you could quite easily justify any number but I'd say around 40 people in the caravan with slightly under half intending to stay at the camp long term fits well and a camp of about 120, enough so as we can kill a few without worrying but small enough to be vulnerable.

hah great! I was just wondering how Rianne would have a chance to get a guar, since she (me) forgot all about that when she was signing up, but obviuosly there are opportunities to get one of those at the council building....thanks Beanie!

You're welcome Minque. After all, there's bound to be someone who can't come.

Or that can be organised...

Oops....so Erna is going to be a bad guy! hehe Well Rianne could notice and give him a big surprise....or not I'm not sure, maybe there shall be murder already?

Or else Rianne could make use of her bow...not for killing but for frightening erna...

Err, I wouldn't advise anyone to unsling a bow in the middle of a crowded street and potentially fire an arrow through the crowd inhabiting said crowded street. It could give off the wrong message, if you know what I mean.

Also, crowds will bring noise and I don't think Erna was yelling at the top of his voice. (that wouldn't be in his best interests. There are guards patrolling the streets.) He doesn't want attention. So for now, I'd say he'll be the bad guy no one is aware of.

Yeah...I thought so, let's see what happens then ,,

Didn't my repeated mentions of him being a psycho give you a clue?

How long are we going to rp round Balmora before the caravan leaves?

Well, presumably until sometime in the day. I'd recommend mid afternoon for the caravan leaving.

Oh, and Minque, if Rianne does catch Erna by surprise, maybe you should try and engineer it so that neither she nor Erna see eachother's faces. Otherwise getting things to work will be difficult with two characters already trying to murder one another.

And it'll mean my exceptionally cunning plan won't work either

No idea. Dranas and Apelles are going to have a little confrontation before leaving Balmora, I'm sure. Since they have a pre-established (bad) connection, it makes sense and helps bump along the story. Just waiting for BBQplatypus to post.

Want to leave before the day gets too hot, I'd think.

Actually, I was waiting for you. I was assuming you weren't in the assembly area yet and were just close to it. But I'll post first if you insist.

Wanted to give Apelles (an alert fellow, it would seem) a chance to see Dranas first. Sorry for causing confusion.

Nope...Rianne will not catch Erna...she's busy playing the Flute, renting a guar and waiting for Dralas...

Dranas is now ready to leave town.