Im glad England got it. France doesn't deserve that honor... yet

Hehe. France got the Youth Olympics, but i suppose that's just not the same. My sister was at them though (as in competing)

[quote=LoneWolf]Hehe. France got the Youth Olympics, but i suppose that's just not the same. My sister was at them though (as in competing)[/quote]

Your sister is an olympics competitor? niiice

Youth Olympics
It was swimming, Butterfly i believe, can't remeber the distance

WOAH... that´s great! results? how many gold medals?

No gold medals, can't remember her results lol
...............I'm not a very good older brother most of the time..........

Just watched the news... Terror in London, over 90 people have been confirmed dead after explosions in the subway and busses, OMG...

I just watched the news and it said only two people confirmed dead. However it said that just as i flicked on so that may have only been from one explosion

2 confirmed dead right now.

Not 90.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm

still it´s awful, many young ppl are going to London for vacations now....never thought it would happen there!

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings

London Blasts kill 40, injure 700.

[quote=minque]still it´s awful, many young ppl are going to London for vacations now....never thought it would happen there![/quote]
I was suppose to be there, but we found out that we were going to spare our money to a 3 weeks vecation next year.. :ashamed:

holy crap.....lucky for ya.....i won´t go now that´s for sure..brrr

And to stay on topic for this thread...

How do you feel about these attacks? Do you think the British will take more action against the terrorists now?

I got told today by a British soldier that he wanted "To kick some terrorist boat for doing this." And that was a regiment execuative officer talking here.

[quote=jonajosa]And to stay on topic for this thread... [/quote]

oops....my bad i reckon! :embarrassed2:

I think the british really should take more action against terrorism.....
The common swedish guy is really very much for harder actions against terrorists and even the increasing stream of immigrants ....

I think the current official death toll is around 31, though they suspect more to be trapped under Kings Cross station. In the last hour or two there have been closing of streets in the town centre of Birmingham too, and reports of controlled explosions. Birmingham's only a few miles from here, and where my dad works, but I'm not overly worried.

Terrorism is one of the smallest problems in the world as far as I'm concerned - looking at it logically, 30 or so deaths is peanuts compared to so many other preventable causes of death, such as curable diseases, poverty, car crashes, smoking etc. The reason terrorism works so well is that it is high profile, instant and indiscriminate, which leads governments to give disproportionate attention to it and divert overly large amounts of money which could be better used to prevent deaths elsewhere.

I think if Bush wasn't friends with various terrorists this wouldn't have happened. A FORMER government defense official said that every time they knew where Osama Bin Laden was, they were given word not to attack. Osama was given immunity long ago and I know this because no one hides in a mountain cave for about three years, makes regular videos and carries out attacks without being captured or killed. Sorry if I conflict with your opinions, but I stand with what I believe.

I think if people didn't exsist then this wouldn't be a problem . . . damn that means I hate me!


Oh, well . . . .

Whoa. Conspiracy paranoia?

While I am no fan of Bush, I find that a bit far-fetched. So some former official says something. Maybe he/she was fired for being dishonest? There are many possible explanations, and you can't believe everything you hear.

oh yeah Minque, you asked how my sister did at the Youth Olympics right? She came first in the B final for the 100 metre Butterfly. No medal for B finals though, unfortunately

Back to the olypics, Canada got the 2012 (either that or 2010) winter olympics! I hope we can get another gold in hockey, las winter olympics we got one in womans and one in mens.

Yea I know im supposed to be gone but... the sound of a thread calling for help was heard! I have come to the resuce with the news that we should only use this thread for discussions about... political dicisions and all that other junk. Please take some time and look through the thread to see the diffrences of past discussions and the one we seem to be undertaking right now. You'll see what I mean.

If you would like to post somthing like the one above me please do so in the Coffee shop.

I take my leave now. *dissapears back into the shadows... after saying hello to Rane*

Hoah..

Anyways, it seems all is quiet on the political front right now.. (That or I haven't seen the news in like 10 days...)

Awww.....no hello for me????????

Anywho....we´ll behave..I promise....cross my heart..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/po...itics-headlines

Strangely, it makes me laugh.

What are your views?

If it doesn't represent the views of the Chinese govt., then silly general. If it does, then silly China.

Nuclear war is more irresponsible than anything else, particularly over something as trivial as Taiwan. Clearly China is the aggressor, yet it would resort to using nuclear weapons to further its aggression because it thinks the USA is out of place. Stupidity that.

I'm thinking the general is wrong. China is not ignorant or uninformed. Such a policy would destroy earth.

`Of particular concern to the United States, she said, was the pace of China's military buildup.` Condoleezza Rice

I find it funny that a country that has declared war on two countries for questionable reasons can be concerned of "Military buildup".

You won't be laughing when I drag your butt out of some rubble when the chinese army decided they want to capture your town. I say bring it on. Theres to much pressure on china that they wouldn't use nukes unless they wanted every europeon nation(and russia, south korea and japan) sending in forces to shut them down.

For now... Ill just sit here planting mines on the california coast waiting for those commie #@$%@^&*. *shakes fist in western direction*

Whoa! Calm down Jona!

I agree with Red on this. I always feel slightly confused when the US condemns any country which starts a nuclear program, when the US itself has a very large nuclear capability. Just because a country develops nukes doesn't necessarily develop them for offense - they are more of a safeguard against other countries with nuclear capability. The US themselves developed nukes to counter germany's imminent nuclear capability in WW2, but now other countries build nukes to counter the US, it's suddenly wrong. In my opinion, the US needs to change it's outlook on international policy - the US is just another country, like all the other countries in the world, including it's political enemies. The US needs to understand that it is not automatically right when it comes to foreign policy.

I am completely calm.

WE don't have a problem with some countries making nukes. Its when dictators or unstable countries start to make them. South Korea needs to stop because their tension with neighboring countries is strung to tight. All it would take is one bullet to come flying across the DM zone and boom! Suddenly everything within 1000miles of Seoul is "ashland". Same with Iraq. We needed to shut thwm down early before we had a war between Iran and Iraq that could cause millions of deaths.

Civies also need to understand that policy is flushed down the drain when you have a country threatening you with war.

When they say "reinvent yourself every day", did they mean "reinvent your reason for going to war every day" as well? Sorry for being so direct, but everyone knows what this war was fought for and that it had nothing whatsoever to do with bringing democracy to anyone, or eliminating a threat.

As far I remember, the only country that has been threating (and actually carrying out) large scale war recently has been the US, dragging various members of the EU with it (stupid Blair, he should learn to say "no" to Bush). I mean, 2 recent wars declared, both with questionable motives and both failling the initial objectives - bin Laden was not found, and neither were Iraq's WMDs. 2 wars, no results, lots of people dead for no reason.

So we have another anti Bush here too. I suggest that untill you or anyone knows exactly whats going on here or in Afganistan should keep their mouths shut and at least try and get a full picture.

Trust me. I don't sit here on my butt all day telling over 3000 men when to kill and when to not to for a false reason. We all know what were here for and that were doing what were supposed to do. It doesn't matter what you foreign civies may think about our country or our people. Im gonna tell you right now that im here to kick terrorist butt and restore peace. And if any of you euro or asian people wanna try and stop us why don't you drag your sorry butt down here and bring it on.

Overall point. Take a walk in my shoes for a few days and then tell me what you think. Untill then, Think about what your saying.




You must have short term memory or you don't watch the news because apparently youre to wrapped up in what you think our are countrys own problems to take a short look out into the world and see what the other "bad guys" are doing.(Stupid French, need to learn how to conduct and win a war. )

ARE YOU SAYING THE WAR WITH AFGANISTAN WAS QUESTIONABLE???? I can't belive what im hearing. Let the terrorist get away with killing over ten thousand people? So what if Osama hasn't been caught. He will be soon though. No one can run forever.

Iraq WMDs are in syria and everyone here knows it. LET ME TELL YOU SOMTHGING. MY men DID NOT die for no reason. I suggest you go into deep thought about what you have just said.

You're not even trying to argue, are you? You're just evoking stereotypes and blurting random patriotism. And if I say I don't agree with your country's foreign policy, I'm an anti-Bush ranter and generally anti-american, huh?

You're naive if you think the geostrategic importance of Iraq had nothing to do with the war. The reasons given by your country's goverment were poor, but all in all - from a purely geostrategic and capitalistic stance - there were a lot of arguments for and few against this war.

If you can't see that or don't agree with me, ok. I can respect that. But please spare me the "try walking in my shoes" sermon.

Tell you what, I'm going to edit this comment to include this. Jona, you have every right to your opinion, and I'm not going to try and change it. I do not like it though, when you challenge the right of other people to post theirs. I've never jumped on one of your posts before when you were expressing your beliefs. Please don't jump on anybody elses that don't agree with yours, ok?

You have a right. But when your not presenting your facts rght or "rambling" about things you've had no experiance in what were talking about then... I would want you to shut up and listen to someone who has.



I would tell you to get a real picture of whats going on.



And what are your reasons for not going to war here. Are you willing to put the lives of millions of pepole on the line because you wanted to wait untill a nuke popped out of a silo to go to war.



I see and understand more than you on this subject from experiance. Yes I respect your thoughts also. But as i have told Burntsierra, I don't like it when people begin to talk like their experts on others situations. Sometimes wothers need to walk in anothers shoes to finally understand what their talking about is right or wrong.

For me? I have been a civie and a soldier. I have been both and seen both. So when you tell me i don't understand whats going on and that im wrong I get mad.

you might have missed this part, but guess what, it turns out Iraq had no nuclear weapons whatsoever.



not having seen all of this first hand, does not mean someone's opinion is less valid I think.



well again, people tend to have different opinions you having one that's different from the opinions of others, doesn't mean you're wrong and doesn't mean they're wrong.
an opinion can hardly ever be wrong.

and it might be me, but I saw no one besides you, accusing someone else of not understanding what's going on.

And you think because you're a gear in an enormous machinery, you understand it all? A soldier may be better at understanding the the workings of war, but does he better understand the reasons? I doubt it.

I can see why you think you do, though. Reflecting on such matters is not good for a solider, as it may lead to understandings in direct contradiction with the soldier's existance.

I don't think this is going anywhere though, so let's not dwell on it.

First let me say the same to both of you. You have deeply insulted me just now. Just because I fight for whats right(or wrong in yalls opinion) mean I am oblivious to what goes on around me. Is that how both of you think of soldiers? Stupid little mindless droids who only carry out whats told of them? Am i not supposed to reflect on these matter? Am I supposed to just ignore whats going on around me?

This is what im talking about. No understanding from my point of view.

now you're just putting words into our mouths,

can't speak for star, but I don't think that's the best way to have a discussion.

Surrendering your own free will and accepting the reasons given to you (if there are any at all) is at the very core of the existance of a solider. It's one of the reasons I never went into my country's army for mandatory duty, but instead chose to do civilian service.

You certainly seem very protective of your argument, and you seem to feel personally insulted no matter what one of us has to say. From that, I deducted a reason. If that offends you, I am sorry.

That may be how european army work but I know for sure that american soldiers are not brainwashed into surrendering your will. We think and breath the same as any of you. Some people get hung up in the thought that once your in the army you can't do anything or think a certain way. Its not true. The only thing they drill into your head is how to strip and clean and rifle in less than 5 min. Other than that I go to work, I go out to eat, I take care of my family ect. Theres nothing to worry about going into the army or navy or whatever. The military helps you... It doesn't destroy you.

Didn't that sound like a army recruiter? Im not stooping that low am I?

so you mean the American soldiers that were indited on charges of torture, and claimed they were only following orders had no trouble at all thinking right?

I'm talking about the prison tortures of course.


I mean either they lied and were acting only on their own, or they were acting on orders and simply choose not to see it was wrong what they did.

I actually dont think think the soldiers that tortued soldiers was a order.. It can of course depend on what kind of a commander they had. I think soldiers who have done that would have acted out of anger, its wrong to do. But I can say that I really dont know what I would have done if we had captured several enemies that had killed my friends in war. I think that would be hard...

You speak as if we can't think on our own. How many times do I have to tell you before its through your skull?... Yes soldiers can think. Does that mean they think in the most correct or flawless way? No. Are your choices always made on perfected well thought out plans? No. Are mine? No. People make mistakes and thats somthing the world will just have to get used to. Including me. I was outraged at the fact that they did that. But i don't dwell on it anymore. Its a past mistake.

Those people chose the wrong way to get that info. That was wrong and their being punished for it. SO don't you hold that against me or anyone that is american. Thats like me Hateing Stargelman because hes German and that is where the Nazi regime started. Thats wrong.

But let me ask you this, Are you holding the actions of a few soldiers against the entire United States armed forces? I think you are.

I fully believe that those orders were given by higher ups in the pentagon and army. Soliders don't just wake up one morning and say "Let's torture our prisoners."

No, they didn't.

I've red all of this and I still can't believe my cat juggling eyes... of all people here, Jona, I would least suspect that you're the one who views world in such black and white contrasts - if you're a military commander (I susspect it, from that post up there) then even worse. First of all, do you stop just for 1 second to think about your colleagues from the other side, the 'commies' or 'martians' or whatewer ?! Are they robots maybe, or are they also people with human emotions and human fears ?! Say, don't you think that China also might be viewing USA, a technologicaly superior nation, as a threat to itself (funny how that would be so, because there is such a great part of US industry in China ) and maybe, just maybe, they are building up their arsenals to protect their own interests ? And forget about the Far East, how 'bout the whole damn world ? See, everyone in the world has interests. Everyone in the frikkin world loves it's country and has feelings for it, no matter if it's big or small - so USA is not solely entitled to be the cradle of righteousness or the world's policeman; however, there is the question of why Iraq, Yugoslavia and many other happy things have took place over the years... much of it is to blame on itself, true, but a big part falls upon shoulders of wrong foreign policy of the US. See, all my life I hated that damn s.o.b. Milosevic, who is now sitting in Hague and acting like a bloody patriot, and I've done in my days what little I could to fight against his regime. Did I and the entire serbian opposition get some solid help from the outside ? No - instead, everything was polarised against us, and even now people see the Serbs as DEVILS. The same polarisation thing has gone down in Iraq, with the exception that now they face civil war because they have opposing faiths within islam that drive each other into a bloodbath - and second military intervention didn't help that one little bit, it just drove the entire land even deeper into the void.
The entire thing, however, isn't that frightening as the fact that polarisation and narrowmindness continues still. See, you can be sure of one thing here, Jona: I am a Bush-hater. In my eyes Geroge W. represents completely misunderstood concept of foreign policy that acts arogantly and denies some more open-minded nations the will to help fight against common enemy - terrorism. When bulk of serbian police and military forces fought Kosovo's albanian separatist forces (a great number of them was getting aid from Osama himself) in 1998. some of them did crimes against civilians - in similar way some of your soldiers tortured prisoners - but those exceptions, along with the popular viewing of Serbs as 'butchers' and 'genocidal nation', made foundation for NATO intervention in 1999. - again, a lot was to blame on our own politicians, but that was no excuse to send bomber formations against factories, railroads, communications; heck, my own street was targeted and bombed ! I had cluster bombs in front of my own front yard ! So... after all that, should I be angered against the whole United States and wish foolishly, like some in my land, that things like 9/11 should happen to you more often ?! Should I be that narrowminded ? Should I be angry ?
No. I simply know that everyone in the world has interests; everyone loves his/hers home and everyone would do anything to defend it - but that should be the point that makes us all stop and think bloody hard and try to be more tolerant towards each other. For those who see entire nations as hostile I say: "Picture can never be just black & white - there are always shades of gray", and for those who revel in some things, like revenge, I say: "vengeance and justice, like guilt and responsibility, are two different things".

p.s. : As for the "walk in the boots" part I did a long, 9-month walk, and I can say with some certainty that military does brainwash you a little - or a lot, if you allow yourself that - but that is entirely individual choice.

p.s. II: Oh, and if this whole shebang I wrote doesen't make much sence to youz'all or even anger some of you, fine - I was also angry when I watched the video shoot of a completely burned-up bus with 19 civilian casualties back in '99. when the AGM that took out the bridge took out the bus, too. See, soldiers follow orders of their commanders, who also take orders from highest politicians, and they don't have to think about collateral damage - but families of the dead have to. So there you go - feel free to be pi**ed off and then check to see if I care.

p.s. III : One more time - GUILT and RESPONSIBILITY are two separate things. I believe that soldiers guilty for those tortures have to answer and that their CO's also hold some responsibility for their actions (not entirely, of course) - but that doesen't make everyone in the US Army responsible for that crime. There is no logic in so called 'collective blame', because there is no such thing as 'collective blame', damnit.

EDIT: what the heck, honored user ?!? He is no honored user, he is a horses [CENSORED]

Ah . . SE Europe, a beautiful place.

Really, are there people like that who wish those attacks would happen to us again.

They obviously didn't watch the live news of the attack, because if they did they would have seen hundreds upon hundreds of people jumping from the windows of the building, so damn high in the air. Would see the hundreds of rescue workers rushing into the building, not only to save other Americans, I assure you, there were definitely foreigners in those buildings. Probably many of them from Europe.

That attack took thousands of American lives.

So, if people wish it upon me and my fellow Americans, then I wish it upon them.

Oh and just so you know, my school had all the TV's on that channel when it happened, and my teacher was crying.

I was only in fourth grade.

Erm...does disagreeing with the war mean that I hate America? Cause if so, that's plankton.

People here also forget that 9/11 took 4 of our lives in Ney York. One could say that 4 lives are nothing compared to the loss of thousants of innocent lives, sure - but they are. Every single life counts, which is why I get so angry when I hear someone say, when speaking of America, "they brought that onto themselves". No one in their right mind can say or claim something like that because it's simply insane. An entire nation just can't be blamed for something... however, you didn't read my entire post carefully, Gamer10, for if you did it you'd see that I regret everything and hate terrorists as much as you, so no, I am not here to fight. Again, my eyes don't see just black and white - they see all the shades of grey (like Evan Seinfeld, a man from Brooclyn, NY, once said in his poem).

p.s.: Oh, and since SE Europe isn't such a lovely place I am now from somewhere else