Jesus, aren't we all just conspiracy theorists?

I'm a consiracy theorist, hes a consiracy theorist, shes a consiracy theorist, were all consiracy theorists!!

Blatantly ripped from.. err.. that Kenan and Kel show on Nickolodian?omgwtfspeeling?!

Sadly, the man Known as Grheid Is the reason that all that is almost impossible now.

Calm down.
This is a politics thread, it's expected that people have very oposite opinions.

If you're geting mad, can't handle this or anything, I recommend you don't post. As you said, keep your sanity. This is just a friendly advice, don't take is an as an insult or anything.

I was singing a song thank you very much.. I am more calm then any person could ever be. I still think you all are conspiracy theorists though.

Oh, OK. You sure have some weird songs

That doens't mean we're not right

Doesn't mean your not wrong either

I doubt it, but everything is posible. Somehow, I don't think everything is black and white. There is only intrest, which is gray Why does USA go to wars? Not because they want to make something good or something bad, it's because USA will benefit from it. USA army is kinda mercenary IMO: They are not here to defend their own country, they are here to attack. That's why I made a good comparisson with old Rome. If you didn't go to wars, nobody would make fun out of you, and nobody would hate you.

Oh come on.. I bet you if countries started loosing their "grey" life would get much harder and/or expensive. The United States military defends the constition of the USA. They are their to defend our country AND our interests.

Nuff said. You all have lifted a veil from my eyes. Why should I care about anyone else? Thanks for pointing that out guys, makes alot of sense. Just know this, many people here think that we are doing the right requardless of what the president says. Mr. Monkey doesn't control us all.

Sorry about my laughing smiley above, it was not to state pro or con anyone, I just thought the last few threads were funny in a simple comically sense. I have no real knowledge or interest in international politics, so I'll not write anything about that...

For me politics is quite simple, I'm afraid: Do what is best for everyone, not just for one group of people living within certain borders drawn up by some power-hungry politician.

This is how I remember the word 'politics' from school as well - the balance between fairly sharing and spending the benefits/drawbacks of a society (society being Earth). Seems most modern politicians don't even know the meaning of this concept, but only think about themselves... I wish that only people who were not personally ambitious were allowed to participate in elections.

I didn't said ''gray'' is bad. Everybody should watch their own intrest. That's the only thing logical... for now. Maybe a few more centuries are needed to make this society perfect. And I'm not even sure in that What I wanted to say is that i disagree with the way USA fulfils their intrests. Violently.

That is not true. I have my own country as evidence. We didn't pose any threat to you, and yet you still attacked us. You didn't defend anyone there.

Wait a second.. Blame the UN Peace Keeping missions not us. Because we are the largest and therefor most prominent in the UN people tend to throw those problems on us.

Look I'm for countries fighting each other and grounding themselves into dust, at least now I am. Hell I've been preaching for involvement in Africa by really quelling the aids problem and "helping" them. But everytime we help someone its said were persuing our own interests not the worlds. Correct. If I'm gonna put money into something I'd like a return.

Well, the reason you bombed us, is because we refused to provide you a base. But that's not important, what's important is that I was bombed by F117-A, with Amercian pilots. Amercian pilots killing my people and calling it coleteral. So nobody threw anything on you.

Well you do, hopefully. Each time your government spend your taxes on some conflict it should be to make the world - not only the US - a better place to live. Maybe not in your lifetime, but maybe a few hundred years in to the future - to make the world safe for your great-great-great (etc.) grand children. But the decision to do this should be supported by the real leading power - the UN. Even if the US is the greatest power in the UN, and even if the US founded the UN (btw the US have not paid the UN fee for decades, if I remember correctly), it should respect the decisions made by them, since they practically represent the entire 'civilized' world. The US would not be able to go to war on all the other UN countries combined.

I guess this is what people in Europe snap up and make them disrespect the US. The UN did not support a war on Iraq, but the US did it anyway.

Again, I have no real personal relation to this (although in a strange way I wish I did), but it's just the impression I get when watching the news and interviews with 'the man in the street' of Europe.

Personally I must admit that I have faith in the US. But then again Norway is known to be one of the most 'Americanized' countries in the world, so I'm probably biased. It was recently on the news here that Norway lent out a lot of hi-tech radars to the US for the Iraq invasion, something that has stirred up the population. It has also been known even since the war started that Norway sent many of their special sci-op forces, known to be the best in the world, and which made the Norwegain population devided between proud and ashamed.

I believe that a country as large as the US are run by decent people who knows what is best for the world. I don't mean the president, as I believe that a person who gets replaced every 4/8 years has no real knowledge of running such a big country. But the real people - the ones who work in the White House/Pentagon for decades - and who is really running the country - know that decisions made by the US will impact the entire world, and that if they decide something that will damage some parts of the world would also damage themselves in the long run. Kind of like the Roman Empire; if you let one madly ambitious man rule, the empire will vanish in a few years, and the world will enter the Dark Ages. It doesn't take much to transform a superpower to a waistland, history has shown us that much over and over.

Right now China is a country to watch. They have a huge population, and if they decide that they'll go to war on 'everyone else' there is not much anyone can do about it.

Like I've said before; the most important thing to do is to stand together and make our world a place to live even in the future. Sadly not many politicians realise this, only scientists.

Conspiracy: When more than one person plans something.

Theory: An idea based on evidence and or logic.

A pretty general title, don't you think? According to the literal definition of that term, every human being who ever lived was probably a conspiracy theorist, but that's not the general term, it's a term, in today's USA, for anyone who disagrees with what went on the record. What's wrong with raising questions about legitimacy? A million times over in history injustice has been corrected by people who questioned the legitimacy of what went on the record.

It's all about what you accept as true, see Channler, you seem to hold the base-truth that the government does not lie, that an administration will not lie. I accept absolutely nothing as base-truth, as far as my base-truth is concerned we could very well be living in the matrix. I accept as plausible truth, whatever isn't impossible.

An example, and it's my favorite example. It was nearly physically impossible for Lee Harvey Oswald to shoot Kennedy from his position with his weapon that went on the record. At least not alone. I repeat physically impossible. He had to land three shots in a .5 second window of opportunity. I would start from there, realizing there's something I'm not being told. People call critics of the Kennedy Assassination, as it went down on record, conspiracy theorists, when really they're just people that used their brains and realized you can't fire off three bullets from bolt-action rifle in a second and a half.

That's how I work with everything. It doesn't make me whatever negative word you want to use, it just makes me a reasonable human being.

Just wanted to shoot in this:

I just saw a story on Norwegian news where it was revealed that the US gave out 600,000 (six hundred thousand!) US citizenships each year! That is incredible, and about 12% of Norway's entire population (which is about 5 million).

The story ended with the reporter saying something like 'this is incredible considering the US have barely enough money to feed their already established citizens'.

I find this most admirable by the US, but are there any views on this from anyone possessing knowledge in this area?

I don't know if I qualify as someone with Knowledge In This Area .... but I do live in the US, in the very international zone of Orlando, Florida & I applaud this action too. As long as these are hard-working people who have intentions of working & paying taxes - this is an asset to the US & I don't know why that reporter was so worried that we have some people that we are having trouble feeding.

The reporter seems to think that they all will become welfare recipients & not work .. but will demand a living be supplied to them by the government. In my experience with the new citizens I've met, that is not at all the case. Our newly arrived citizens are among the most hard working among us - many of them small business owners, which is not an easy life. Also, many are with college degrees, which they must sometimes put on hold and do menial work until they master the language here - but they do it. At the veterans clinic - most of the doctors are from foreign countries & work for the V.A. cheaper than the American standard doctor pay for approximately 4 years, at which time they mostly enter the main civilian hospital force.

So, to my experience - that reporter was an alarmist & everything is right about giving prosperous, inspired people a new beginning in America.

I completely agree. It'd been done very well. They've got India pegged in by Pakistan, they control Nepal... they're in a good position to threaten oil fields, which means that they can easily control the west so they can accomplish their aim: Taiwan.

They want it. They want Taiwan baaaad. It's because of the culture museum. Anyway, to cut a long story short they've even sent Taiwan Pandas. That is a very important move. They'll cut a deal to prevent US interference and...there we go.

And you're right about nobody stopping them? Worlds largest employer is the Chinese army. Just make sure you don't fall foul to one of the classic blunders:

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia" - The Sicilian

My apologies, I saw the story again recently and I had completely misinterpreted that reporter the first time (enterered the room while he was talking). He said "...they barely have enough resources to feed their current immigrants..." or something equally translated. So he was in fact talking about non-working immigrants living on welfare, and not immigrant workers or other Americans.

Edit: This post was related to Ibis post above Foster's.

And Foster, you seem to know more about this than me, but I can confirm China's position in the oil industry is really establishing. The company I'm working for have helped China in many drilling and completion operations over the last few years, and they have a lot of potential for finding a lot of new oil fields, since they haven't really explored much earlier. If they find enough to be able to produce enough oil for their own personal use we should make sure and not pee them off...

Ahh China... you would be suprised how much money they have. People are poor, but the country itself has loads of it. That's bacause they don't aknowledge yuan how much it's really worth, and because people work for rediculusly small amount of money. A lot of rich American\European companies already switched their buisness from America\Europe to China.

They have the foundings, they have the extraordinary war equipment, and they have a lot of young men, capable of serving the army. Indeed, what could posably stop them? Forget about the NATO and USA: China has nuclear weapons and great armory, so they won't dare to start a ''peace mission''.

I dare not imagine what could happen

My dear lads, China isn't going to act up with its nuclear arsenal or do anything equitably stupid... why, you ask ? Well, you've given the answer yourselves. It is not in their best interest to do so. Tell me, how long has it been that you couldn't buy a pair of Nike shoes made in any other place except China ? And how many times have you turned the product label only to see those horrifying 3 words: "Made in China" ?? The Chinese won't go into some bizzare full-blown confrontation with the rest of 'us', especially now that we now have a multipolar world (more than 2-3 serious nuclear powers) - no, they will continue to undermine the entire world's economy and strenghten their economical reserves, even if that might just blow up in their faces... now, THAT is what truly scares the juggling cats out of me

milanius, we were talking in theory
And I mentioned nukes, just for a reason that no other world country would interfiere with the war betwen China and some other Asian country. Just knowing that if you attack them, you could risk a nuclear disaster, you would think twice before attacking.

But even if they attack some poor other country: What would stop them? Nothing.

You've got to understand the Chinese mindset. It's not about money, it's about prestige. It's about their concept of face. Face is, in my experience, THE most important thing in Chinese culture. Loss of face can be worse than death.

Quite simply, the Chinese are quite capable of turning a war nuclear if it means that they preserve their honour.

What you've got to realise is that the Taiwan thing isn't so much about the economy, or even the unity (though that is a lovely chunk). The cultural revolution pretty much squished out all of Chinese culture, and I'm talking about stuff going back to the Qin dynasty. Now, Chang Kai-Shek realised that the communists were going to pretty much wipe the place clean, and so took most of China's national treasures with him. What they have in Beijing is incredible; but not even a fraction of it. If you want to see the impressive collection, go to the museum in Taiwan.

This is why China has made sure that Taiwan isn't recognised as a country (by most places), doesn't call itself China in the Olympics, and, most important of all, why they've issued a statement that they WILL re-unify with Taiwan - by political means, but if that doesn't fail, they will use force. They've said it, loud and clear.

Hmm, I didn't hear anything about it, but I don't watch the news lately
Still, I don't think they will use nuclear weapon. They have a strong army, why would they use WMD? But I think they will do it peacefuly.

Anyway, since you were living in Hong Kong (right?), you would certanly know this better than me.
What do you think will come of it?

I am not too worried about China actually. Sure they have a billion or so people, but they would have a hard time fielding an army for any major conflict. If sanctions were ever brought against China, their economy would collapse is a short amount of time. As was said alot of stuff is made in China and that direct flow of funds is not something they would want to stifle carelessly.

Besides, the most insidious of all weapons is already installed in China. McDonald's!

Now country can long stand against the Big Mac w/cheese!

Meh, theory shmeory when I see all these chinese stores, stacked up in certain parts of Nis, with the tendence of rising into entire Chinatown, I shudder. Chinese are far more dangerous as a conquoring force that does the job slowly, but inevitably, rather that a nuclear superpower. And their work etics suplement them perfectly - they'll run down european economies, I fear, faster that you can say "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

Oh, this isn't news - China said that a few years ago. The panda thing is recent. It's a great diplomatic gesture to be offered a Panda by China - really a nasty problem for Taiwan though; do they accept it or not?

Personally, I think that China is unlikely to do anything with a US carrier group in range. However, should there be a window of oppotunity (or a deal made), I think that an invasion is likey. WMDs? Nope. Can't see them using it, because of collateral damage. They're claiming unification; it doesn't go down well to blast the crap out of those you are supposedly joining with.

China works in decades, rather than years. It's been moving peices for a long time now, and I think that Taiwan has a very short life expectancy, at least as it is known now. Either they'll join diplomatically, or they'll join by force. Either way, my guess would be that China will establish another SAR, similar to what they've done in Hong Kong.

By the by (this is completely unrelated) but I was trying to find a site that explains Taiwan's international status. Whilst I fell short somewhat, I'm muchos enjoying the CIA factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tw.html) as it has very detailed information on all countries. Note Taiwan is at the bottom of the list, next to the EU, due to it's unique international status.

China will never go to war with the US or the EU. Foster said it perfectly. You wanna see lots of ruined economies? Get of China. But its mutual, we need them, and they need us. I think we should all hold hands and sing kumbyeya!

Lets hope the situation doesn't escalate, if it leads right down to it, US foreign policy in the matter would be torn two ways should a serious war erupt. Pakistan is considered a key ally, but the recent nuclear agreement between the US and India has partially severed US support for Pakistan.

However, in a conventional war, Indias armed forces are widley considered far superior (I'm talking India and Pakistan, not India and China), but in a nuclear war the effects would be overwhelming and devastating for both nations.

A war with China, whether its the United States or India, would go bad for either of the two latter nations. This is only if they stood alone, but when it comes down to it, US support in a war, if the agressor was China, would probably tilt in India's favor.

I think that I was misunderstood....
Guys, I wasn't saying that China would attack USA. I was saying that if USA intrefiers with China operations in say, Taiwan, who knows how would China react. USA would not risk a nuclear war. That's why nobody will even try to make a ''peace mission''

If I'm not mistaken we've cut off.. in 1970 diplomatic ties with Tiwain, now yes we still get alot of electronic stuff from there but it would ruin their economy not to sell to us or the rest of the world. And generally our government has been for the reunification of Taiwan and China. I'm for it as long as China doesn't fuxxerz everything up and try to purge all the ancient culture that has been preserved (if only through museums.)

Someone said something along the lines of this..

The 20th century was an age of America and General Motors, the 21st sentury will be that of Asia and Honda.

To true.. I'm not going to fight it.. But my question is how long? Cheap labor will only exist in nations that 1) are underdeveloped, 2) Oppresive governments, 3) hire immigrants at unfair wages.

I'm afriad of what is going to happen when Afrika starts to modernize. Good for them yes, but what happens after "equality" is reached? Watch prices for everything sky-rocket. You wanna see a Super Depression? It's comming.

All of this is the sole opinion of Nick Inc.

Hmm, very intresting post Clannler, and might be easily true.

Anyway, I would like to ask some of you Americans, here on the forum: Is all the USA police like this?
Or is this just an extreme case?

I would have to say that is a pretty extreme case. most policemen I've known are nice and decent people.

Yeah, you don't see that stuff very often.

Ahh good. Glad to hear that.
How corrupted is the police in the states anyway? Will a policeman take a bribe if offered?

It really all depends on the person, but in most cases no. A had a close friend who's father is a policeman and a pothead. He took bribes of bud from people he caught for possession.

That would be a very extreme case indeed. The vast majority of police officers are all really decent people who are doing a difficult job. Of course some corruption does exist.. especially in larger cities where its difficult to keep tabs on all the officers. I wouldn't ever recommend bribing an officer here. You probably have less than 1 in 10 chance that they would take it, and the other 9 out of 10 times you just guaranteed yourself some jail time.

Overall I would trust the police here to do the right thing 99% of the time. Living in an age of camera phones and video keeps even the bad ones honest most of the time. Most police vehicles require video cameras mounted in them as well.

All our police officers are vietnam vets.. like the chief is ex-special forces..

And also no, I have never, prob will never know any people as sick as that. It takes a person who loves torture to do those disgusting things.

Since as far as I can tell my last post was deleted I've determined the parliament is no longer a legitimate place for discussion or debate, and will no longer be positing here unless I get a suitable explanation. It probably doesn't mean anything to any of you, but I know what was in that post and it was completely inoffensive in a debate manner.

Wow Doom, your post got deleted with no explanation? That does sound strange. Usually there is an admin note on what's going on if there's an edit or something.

That is an extreme case of police sadism and corruption. Perhaps they had something else against this guy as well, maybe of a personal nature.
I grew up actually, in a small New Jersey suburb with a very corrupt police force, but even they followed rules and kept the corruption secret from the law abiding citizens until the whole organized crime thing came out in the papers. I remember driving down the road one day and hearing the story of their wholesale arrest on the radio & thinking "Oh boy, now I can speed!" But it was pretty par for the course for NJ.

I know you're probably too experienced to have let this happen, but could it be a possibility that you forgot to hit 'add reply' after previewing the post? That has happened to me a few times here...

Regarding police officers I have no real opinions on that except that I know that they're only human like anyone else. I respect those who choose such a tough, crappy and low paid job, but for these reasons there is also a chance of corruption I guess.

Thank you for answering me folks

DoomedOne, you should really PM a moderator or Admin concerning that. Or, as Olav said, are you sure you hit the reply button?

Yeah I thought about that, but I'm sure I saw the message on this thread before closing it, I've wised up to that after the first few times. I see absolutel no reason why it'd be deleted, either.

Just ask Star... Common.

So... What are you alls thoughts on the new chinese car that is supposed to be imported to the USA in the near future?

I've read bits and peices and can't find any solid info. Heard that their crap on wheels (something from a european review) to its going to take over the car industry. Personally I've always been a fan of import cars, me likes to street race. But I still love alot of american cars.

But when it comes to price, and sometimes style, I'll go import. In reguards to hauling stuff and mass transportation, I generally stay american.

And btw doomed! You think I'm so anti-enviroment and whatnot, ever heard of bio-desiel? Consider it a bootleg operation but me and father make our own fuel! Burns cleaner, doesn't polute the atmosphere, and smells like fries.

Clannler, provide enough info on that car. I have no idea what's it all about. What's the type of the car? How is the car called? Do you have any article on it?

Channler, when have I ever called you anti-environment? It sounds like you're projecting your own thoughts onto me. I have never called you anti-environmental, I've only thought you were a bit of an boatmaster for calling me an eco-nazi.

But good for you to start making bio-diesel, and I've more than heard of it, I've printed something like 2000 leaflets and put them on car windows telling people how to obtain it and giving them all the necessary facts about it.

Is bio-diesel the ethanol stuff?

Yes you have..

I remeber cause I was boasting about my big boat truck (which now lies in a junk yard) and its big bad assness. You actually said something a little more severe, but being that it came from you I took it as goodwill

@ Danny: Well, sorta, and not really at the same time. Eth is big on corn. This uses grease. Pref not french fry but it works. Its really neat, but doesn't get as good milage as gasoline does. However it still has the same kick gas has and it burns a helluva lot cleaner. Cool idea, but right now it is kinda hard to do unless you live in someplace thats really built up. it also requires an investment.

I actually love the enviroment, quite opposite to my conservative cousins (metaphorically of course)

Bravo!!! for Channler & Dad for making your own fuel ... I've heard of people doing this but have never had the privilege to meet such a resourceful person ... now I have!

The funniest story I've heard concerning this was from some people who follow UCF football games, both home and away & they drive to the tailgate parties en masse with other fans.
At one rally they were following their friends car the whole way who made their own gas, same kind Channler is talking about I guess ... because my friend who was telling the story said that everyone in the following car was ravenously hungry for french fries by the time they got to the tailgate party because the front car's fuel exhaust smelled like french fries. ahahahaha!!

I don't know the chemical term for it, but bio-diesel is made from biological things (duh ) like food waste, for example. I know there are several farms dedicated to growing grain/crops solely for the purpose of creating bio-diesel.

Btw, here is what Wikipedia has to say about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio-diesel