I know nothing about the Jehovahs witnesses (apart from the fact that they keep changing the dates of their predictions), but they are edging into the various churches who I don't like due to medical reasons. I've heard of parents that were perfectly willing to let a kid (only 4) die because of their particular beliefs regarding medical practice - can't remember the details, but I think it was a trasfusion, and I'm pretty sure it was a very fundamentalist sect. Fortunately the kid in this instance didn't die (due to something else), but I don't know... I question any belief that thinks we shouldn't save someone we can (when we can give them a completely full recovery).

That said they're easy to scare off your doorstep. Just put up a sign in a window saying you support blood donation. Given that the Jehovahs Witnesses are solar scriptora (only the Bible can decide doctrine), I'm guessing it wasn't the JW's at your door (could be wrong, though).

All I do know is that the church of Jesus Christ and latter day saints believes in the bible, and a new book (the book of Mormon, which is several books) handed down to Joseph Smith. The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints do NOT have mutiple wives, and most of the things are actually sensible: just avoid alcohol, caffine, poisons that sort of thing. Pretty clean living. Of course there is also the mission, which is where you go off and try and recruit others. And there is the phone-book baptisms where you baptise people without them knowing...but overall it's not that bad.

Still, considering I was a raving alcoholic for 5 years, I'm sure you can realise that I'm not a mormon.

The (main) difference between Islam and Christianity:

Christians believe that Jesus acted as a substitute for us and died for our sins. Basically, he was perfect, and took all of our misdeeds on himself. Since God couldn't look upon sin, he sent Jesus to take on ours so that he could look on us and we could be forgiven. (God turned his back on Jesus in the Bible) This is the main idea behind Christianity.

Muslims believe that Jesus was just another prophet, denying the cornerstone of Christianity.

Muhammad comes along, claims he had a vision from Gabriel, (which he wrote down in the Quran) and converts half of the middle-east.

Muslims also believe that only a specific number of people can enter heaven, while Christianity offers it to all who believe.

There are many huge differences that begin pretty much at Jesus' birth.

and again, i don't see major differences in those points you pointed out. If i'm the only one who thinks that way, i foresee a dark, dark future for all mankind.

I'm not saying that I condone the violence between these religions, I'm just pointing out the obvious differences.

The center of christianity is jesus, and islam just brushes him off a a lesser prophet. Muslims see Muhammad as almost the equivalent of christianity's Jesus, while Christians don't even acknowledge him at all.

Jews don't believe in either.

I agree that the constant fighting b/w the religions is absurd and often contradictory to what they believe, I was just pointing out that they are extremely different religions.

Well, different or not, one thing keeps all religions in common is this one God. Almost all religions, even if they have thousands of gods in them, they still belive that there is one God above all others.

Believe it or not I was raised Mormon. This is the greatest reason I wasn't a Mormon when I started thinking for myself. This usually goes the same for Catholics too. Yeah... Mormons are pretty.. odd. I'd say in spirit and in practice Catholics and Mormons differ very greatly and even in craziness Catholics differ (though truth be it, Mormons probably surpass). Most people speak of Mormons out of ignorance, disliking them for the wrong reasons.
I dislike them, but I'm not ignorant about them. The name of the game is supression with Mormons. Most missionaries practacly radiate repressed homosexuality and the young men (deacons, teachers, priests) aren't much better off either. Also there's a great deal of hidden emotional trauma and mental illness, though this isn't a major number of members it is still alarmingly higher than say.. any other christian variation (though they are probably on par with Catholics if not greater). This emotional trauma is on small part because of the massive suppression but mostly because of the member's families.
Of course, on divine punishment mormon's aren't so severe. There's many a "get out of jail free card" if you will. Still on some things they go a little over the top. I can't recall how many times I figited in my chair as I struggled with the idea that god might be constantly scanning my mind for evil thoughts. They operate on extremely blind faith, much more than average. To question any of the docterine in any way shape or form is complete heresy and you'll probably be greatly ostracized for any differing opinion.
Conformity is a big one. I don't know how many times I was singled out for theft or some such random crimes about the church because I didn't act or dressed like they did. This isn't just the experiences of one mormon church either, I went to several different buildings. All the same story. The most awful one was they actually accused me of being extremely mentally ill, that I was a danger to myself and others and that I should be instituionalised. After my parents had a a good yell at me and I lost my last shred of faith in their religion the Bishop (Basicly the leader of the Ward. Several Wards meet in the same church, but a different times. The Stake President presides over the Bishops, but that's enough education for now) tried to grease the wheels a bit by bribing me with bikes, which I accepted, but only because I didn't have a choice. Still, it didn't make me like him any more.

Ugh, that's enough Mormon rants for now. Currently I'm a neo-pagan, though honestly I'm not practicing lately so much with all my non-permanence of address. Don't even get me started about pagan stereotypes, I'm sure you don't want to hear it. Also, I don't practice in rebellion against christianity, I truly do believe in it. I bear christians no ire, for why should I? The only people I dislike are those who have wronged me. Which are basicly almost all Mormons I've ever come in contact with and a few Catholics.

Well, that's a bit of a stretch. A King of Gods isn't necessarily one God, he's just the King of them. It doesn't make him or her more revered either. Sailors would often send more homage to Poseidon than Zeus just because he was more prominant to them, since their lives were imminently in his hands. Same with farmers and the gods or godesses of fertility. They didn't believe the King of Gods was better than all the others, he was just either their father or their God, like a hierarchy.



Yeah same goes for me, though religion was never pushed on me, I was very faithful until I started thinking too much.

And yeah, that's what made me turn away from Satanism, the whole "christian opposition" thing. My belief is everyone is free to believe what they want, it doesn't matter to me, I support anyone for their beliefs. I just don't like it when people of a certain organized religion single out another when they're both on the same level: "believe what we believe or suffer for eternity." But it wasn't hate that turned me away, or bittnerness, I just wanted to get the experience I think every human being should get, the ability to explore their world and discover what they truly believe.

You and are are pretty close in faith I think, though I shy away from religious labels, as it draws judgment and puts me on a side of some stupid debate. But I believe in the connection between all living things and everything in the biosphere, and I think the biosphere is alive as well, the closest you could come to my God (which, in my mind I see as a goddess.)

Hmmn, not many pagan religions have a major "Over-God". It's mostly just small ones and big ones. Wiccans believe in a Goddess and God. The godess (If I'm not incorrect) plays a more important role, but I don't believe she's as much a "Queen of the gods" as anything else.

Wow, Stomach Ache ... I can see why you are on your own. What a lotta compassion to go through. I applaud you for taking the huge leap of being your own person for real. It's certainly no sin to be different. God made us all unique for many reasons I think - diverting his own boredom may have been a big factor. Those people sound pretty messed up, and I've found similar traits (sheepism, I'd call it) among some other close-knit religious sects like Menonites & Amish. It amused me to no end to hear everyone who isn't Amish being referred to as "English" - blacks, Italians ... no matter - they were English, if not Amish. heheh

To my knowledge paganism stems from the earliest nature religions like as far back even as Druidism and it does seem that they do not have any one Ubergod and that goddesses get equal time with gods, all governing different parts of nature albeit.

After my thought awakening from Catholicism ... I burned with this desire to "know" and so I started studying alot of different religions by finding people who worshipped in them and getting aquainted, reading their holy book, visiting the temple, synagogue, etc. I looked into Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, slightly into Satanic enough to retreat really fast, Ancestor worship, Menonite, Amish, Seventh Day Adventist (which I eventually became.)
But the really truly enlightening thing that I found in all of these religions was a common thread. Not the one you are discussing of "believe OUR religion or burn in hell" but beautiful common themes of a benevolent but just godhead, creation myths, a feeling that the individual is as important as the whole, respect for all lifeforms, even free choice - even within the restrictive caste system of Hinduism there is choice. An overall goodness pervades all the religions that I sampled and I think that religion is simply man trying to be his best self, however he perceives that to be.

All religions have the concept of choice, because that is about all we have that is truly ours.

well, in my opinion i am still a little shaky about the whole "one god" stuff because their really is not that much proof. but until they find the missing link the whole "evolutionary theory" is also shaky.

Well.. that's a whole new bucket of fish....

agreeing with intestinal. besides what exactly do you mean by missing link?

there are many transitional fossils known. they are not the sole basis for evolution, which has plenty of evidence for credibility.

I believe in adaptation, but not evolution.

I absolutely refuse to believe that I came from a monkey.

Funny, dantrag, how you can like, totally believe in evolution and at the same time, just like the rest of the scientific community, NOT believe you came from a monkey.

That came-from-a-monkey thing is just a misconception. According to evolution, humans just share a common ancestor.

And, even if not, why would it be so hard to come from a monkey? I mean, it seems just a little arrogant to think we could have never been simpler life forms.

It looks like I'm the only Jew on this board, so I'll give my spiel... Jews and Christians seem really similar on the surface, same basic God (besides the One or three thing) most of the same people, but values and interperetations are very, very different.
From what Christian texts I have read (not much) including some of their old testament (the Torah), their version is different. They seem to add in references to heaven or hell that didn't exist in the real version (I say real because the Torah is the older, unmodified version). We don't know exactly what awaits us in the afterlife, and we're not taught of any ultimate award or such things. We're not taught about it because it's not an issue; we know what we're supposed to do, so we do it.
Christians put a lot more emphasis on the whole "believing in God" bit. I know that sounds funny, but knowledge and skillfulness are just as important to Judaism as Godliness is, whereas religiosity is the big deal for not just Christians, but, as far as I've seen, almost every kind of gentile. An example, take one guy who's a good person and fairly smart, but has no belief in God. If he had even one Jewish parent, we'd most likely think of him as one of us; he has our blood, and he would be much more knowledgeable about Judaism simply because of his Jewish parent, but the same sort of guy from a Christian home, who is also pretty much atheist, his religion states that he will go to Hell and may be shunned (I've seen it happen) I'm not trying to put a bad light on Christians, but they're just brought up that way.
I'm a pretty secular Jew, about a lot of things I'll even say sanctimonious (I lie, I break plenty of commandments, et c) but I make a point to be helpful and friendly (at least outwardly) and enjoy academic things.

Interesting comparisons LavaLampMaster. When you mentioned academic things, I get the impression that academia & knowledge is an important part of your religion. I admire the attitude of archeologists in Isreal I've read about who seem to have a more open attitude than many Christian ones. They sound like they truly want to know history, not just uncover things to affirm their own beliefs. Seems more academic to me.



Well, Dantrag - does it upset you that you came from an egg? Just wondered.

I think that both adaptation and evolution consider that we share common ancestors with all the great apes. We are supposed to have something like 98% similar DNA to them; so that kind of indicates some sort of connection, logically speaking.

But then again, each human being - even a twin - is unique. There has never been another you or another me. Supposedly. So, in all the history of mankind and of the world ... there seems to be a vast variety concerning DNA. It's a fascinating subject.
I am one of those people who doesn't think that evolution rules out creationism, or vice versa. One fact = 2 possible explanations. Probably neither one right on.

Actually Lavalamp, judaism is one of the few religions I think are religions, not just cults, because you're right, they don't condemn people who aren't jewish. In that way, they are more in common with buddhism or the polytheistic religions than christianity, and have more of my respect.

Of course, orthodox judaism is a bit different, and zionism is definitely a little occultish, what with the chosen people and that crap, that's where it loses me.

Did you know that Jesus supposedly wasn't even born on Christmas?

He was apparenlty born sometime in January.

The whole Christmas day was originally a Paegan Celebration of the sun God.

Now it is a Ceebration of the Son of God.

The Orthodox and Hasidic are a bit strange, I'll admit, but Zionists aren't of their own sect of Judaism; it's more of a Jewish political entitiy. Zionsists believed that Jews needed their own country; almost every other religion had at least one country that it neraly completely dominated. Once the League of Nations and later the UN were formed, they really wanted to have a hand in the world's future (besides what the crazy people who say we control the world economy and media... which is kinda true); they wanted the land that we used to live on, and after the second world war, they had to use much more... persuasive ideas. (by the way, if Haganah was still around, HAMAS and Al Qaida would be long dead).
I did an essay on Zionism for my world history class this year, so I probably got carried away right here.

Well, the protectorate ended, and then pretty much everyone attacked them.

For the Isrealis, Kirk Douglas led the army and Frank Sinatra flew a plane and dropped molotov cocktails, as I remember. Pretty sure they both died.

Still, considering there have been three wars, one pre-emptive strike that didn't become a war, one invasion, one barrage of missles to try and ruin a coalition, one high-profile hostage rescue, countless suicide bombings/army excersions and one kick-boat general with an eyepatch, not to mention one of the best intelligence services in the world (if not THE best), they're not doing too bad for themselves.

Still not going to win a popularity contest with their neighbours, though.

You guys over-generalize christians an awful lot. It's a very small percentage of Christians that will go and ostracize their son for not being a christian. And quite frankly, they aren't very good christians if they do.

I seem to remember Jesus hanging out with 'sinners' more than he did the Pharisees and such. And if we're supposed to try to be like Jesus...you can guess the rest.

I honestly think that most self-procliamed christians aren't actually christians. They just think that they are because it's the accepted thing here in the US.

Well put. Since Christianity is so immense it impossible to generalize it. There are tons of different kinds of christians as there are different kinds of.. Democrats or whatever you like.. Also as you say, probably a great majority of those who call themselves christians aren't "good" christians (if you can call it that).

That's one of the mayor flaws in religion, the fact that it's so easy to "miss-interpret" and therefore manipulate.

No man/woman today lives as Jesus did, at least not as it sais in the bible, but he set an example as how you should be to your next man. I doubt he actually wanted to be praised as the son of God (if he now was the son of God) but rather wanted people to live as he had tought them too. Today unfortunatly very few people does, christian or whatnot.

I believe in the christian god, loosely, of course. That is due to the fact that I am curious about other religions and easily influenced.

I need to dwell on this more...

May I recommend checking up John Shelby Spong, I'm reading his last book right now "A New Christianity for a New World" and I find it quite interesting. He has a rather "unconvetional" view on Christianity and God or may I say a rather provocative view of it.

You can find some articles written by him here, if you don't want to dive into a whole book from start.

Actually I recommend all of you interested in religion (not only christianity) to look him up. His book has made me question quite a lot from the conventional christianity without making me leave christianity all together. (Yes, that's right, I'm Christian . )

I prefer to consider myself Agnostic, because I try to respect others' beliefs while maintaining my own. My beliefs are simple:

DIETY(S): God, Gods, Godess, Godesses, Etc...

(1). There may (or may not) be DIETY(S)
(2). If there is/are DIETY(S), He/She/They is/are not my DIETY(S)
(3). Everyone is entitled his/her own theory concerning DIETY(S)

I know only what I see, becuase this is a world of perceptions. Yours are different from mine, and there is nothing wrong with that. I am a nuetral party because in my OPINION (NOT flaming, just expressing) taking either side without actual proof is a tad foolhardy.