I got the idea for making this thread from Polygamy thread. I think this may be an intresting topic.

What do you think about religion(s)? Do you belive in any kind of gods? Christian God? Alah? Buddha? Or you don't have a religion at all?

If you do stick to your religion, tell us why. If you don't belive that there are such things as gods, again tell us why.
I hope that there won't be any flames or immature behavior. I have good faith in Chorrol.com community that there won't be any hard words, or simply dissrespect towards other opinions.

So, let's start shall we?

I personally don't believe in any religion. Whether there is or isn't a god/goddess doesn't really bother me. And you don't have to be religious to do good things although some people I know seem to think that that's the case.

The main reasons I don't believe in any gods are:
- because none of my family is religious so I haven't been brought up in a religious environment
- because I believe too deeply in logical, scientific explanations for things and believe that, one day, we will have a scientific answer for everything.

I'm not against religion; if people want to be religious then that's their choice; but I'm not for it either.

If I'm going to honor a God or Gods on a regular basis throughout my entire life with beliefs and rituals, the least they could do is give me some proof of their existence.

Alright... Well this is a very difficult topic to discuss on a forum and have the thread remain civil, even for here it might be a challenge, but some part of me really likes deep discussions about things you aren't supposed to talk about.

My personal view on Religion:

I do not choose to believe any of the major religions as they are practiced today. I mostly focus on learned knowledge as well, but I also keep a small space in reserve for the unknown. I don't believe in blind faith based on written words laid down thousands of years ago and translated several times. I also don't believe in the aethist stance of 'There is no God' as that is also based on a blind faith in science that has yet to be proven. I trust in "facts", but want to remain open to the truth that facts do change over time as more knowledge is gained.

I see a dual nature in religion both good and bad-
-Good: Overall I think religion is a great way to teach an entire society a code of values to live by. Those individuals that share the same value structure are more likely to get along and live peacefully.
-Bad: More people have fought and died because of religion than any other single factor. While those with the same religion might better co-exist with each other, they also are more likely to clash with those value systems/religions that conflict.

-Good: Belief in something that lies beyond death is what keeps most people from questioning whether everything they do in life is futile or will have meaning once they are gone.
-Bad: Religion has been used in the past and continues to be used as a control mechanism for manipulating the mass population relatively easily by a very small number of people or individuals.

I could probably go on for pages listing both good and bad points, but I won't.

For the most part I have no problems with those that choose to believe in a God as long as they also respect my view that I choose not to blindly follow.

I'm Buddhist but I prefer calling Buddhism a philosophy not religion because I don't believe in anything I can't see. Buddhism uses the Hindu Gods to explain a lot of things but it doesn't necessarily say the Hindu gods exist. All I believe in is the visible effects of meditation, Dharma and philospophy; if it was really an enlightened being or some guy smoking opium who started it all doesn't concern me, it works either way.

To me, religion is something that has grown with mankind and is used as his/her explanation for the world around him/her. The explanation of the origin of things but also of the flow and constancy as well as the destructive powers unleashed by storms, earthquakes, etc.

In the beginning people seemed to think that there were seperate gods/goddesses for every little item and force in nature. A corn god, a wind goddess, a rain god & all that. Then they got a little savvyor and thought of a pantheon of gods - Greek Olympus, The Roman gods, Norse mythology. The Egyptians had hosts of gods until 300 years before Christ, when a Pharoh decided that there was but one god and he closed all the other temples and moved the center of his kingdom to Memphis and had all the people worship this one god. But he alienated the now poor temple priests to the point that they killed him & reopened the multiply temples.

Then Jesus Christ came & talked of One God made of 3 parts - father, son & spirit - and Christianity soon took over the world. Islam is an offshoot from Christianity & Judaism was its base. Krishna has some teachings remarkably similar to the Christ's.

Then the industrial revolution came along & Scientia took hold. There is no reason that religion and science can't exist on the same plane, but many people seem to think that they can't. Religion and Science are simply two different ways of telling the same story - voicing our unknown. And so it will go until all the scientific and religious data are entered...until all the arks of the covanent, the roseta stones & noah's ark have been located and analyzed. Until the new signs are found.

And then mankind will realize that it ALL was true, that the sons of god did know the daughters of man and found them exceedingly fair. That we are starchildren and that our "true" gods will be our ancestors who will descend for us some promised day and take us away to that new home in the sky.

All hail Agent Molder!! I want to believe! We are not alone!!!

Before I begin what will promise to be an extremely long winded explanation of my thoughts and opinions on religion, I would like to note to Ibis I think Science took over in the Rennaisance, before the Industrial Revolution. I think it was during the rebirth in europe that people began evaluating their beliefs on a real level and turning away from irrational thought. Not to say religion is irrational, just that before the Rebirth, irrational religious beliefs were more widely accepted, nowadays whenever a Pat Robertson shows up he get's laughed at or sighed at.

So, with no further adieu... my stance on Religion. It promises to be innoffensive, as it's stating my beliefs and I have no beliefs against individual people, nor any problem with any particular institution, and no reason to offend them.

In the 7th grade I gave up Christianity, something I held onto very dearly. God and Jesus and all that jazz kept me going through a very stressful life, parents divorcing, relatives dying, drinking problems in the family, all that good stuff. The conclusion I came to in 7th grade was that the Bible was just a bunch of words, and meant nothing in actuality. The more I thought about it, the more I realized the Bible, and the organized religion I belonged to, offered me only false consolidation for my troubles. You see, ever since I was tiny, I had a strong fear of death. Not the decaying, but realization of the passage of time, and of how quickly I was shooting into old age (I believe it's thought of as awareness of your mortality), and how short life was and how before I knew it I'd be dead and it'd all be for nothing. I required an afterlife. Well in 7th grade, because I started thinking too much and being critical on my beliefs, or rather the beliefs I was told to have, it no longer provided consolation, and proved useless.

Where I went from there was a whole mess of places, exploring different religions. No, that's a lie, all those different religions was too much reading for me. Actually I explored spirituality through thought alone. First the God I loved transformed into a universal intelligence and a clock-maker, then as I continued to grow and think about life, the universe and everything, and figure things out, he transformed into a pattern, nothing more than an entity giving life through the mechanics of the universe playing out. Then, he was simply meaning, and depth, and purpose. Then, as I was faced with more criticism, and stemmed my own criticism over the religious right, and grew an ego too large for my head, he was nothing. All the while my mind still searched for an afterlife, and couldn't find it, couldn't figure out what would give me solice. I reasoned with heaven, with the onion thing, with collective unconscious, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I read the Satanic Bible, went through that phase, read up on buddhism, went through that phase, but eventually it donned on me, I could never really know. When I figured that out, it seemed so obvious. God was the mother earth, and all the creatures on it, and the ecosystem both the living and the non, and the connections between every creature. The afterlife was the world after you die, the difference between Heaven and Hell are decided by your actions while you're living. You can succumb to greed and violence, and leave the world after your life in worse shape, or you can be kind and hold to justice and leave the world a better place. I decided any truth in the idea of an afterlife should have no bearings on my life now, because I didn't want to ignore what I could be doing to help people here if I were too focused looking ahead.

So what's my take on organized religion? I'm against it, because I wish every human could get the chance to figure their own beliefs and ethics out for themselves, it's a very rewarding persuit.

Wow. I knew I would meet many different people on forums. But I didnt expect this different.

I am Christian, believe in god. There is a holy feeling, just like hapiness, sadness, anger, or any other emotion. Ive felt it, it felt like god speaking to me once, in one of my harder times of life, I all the sudden felt the holy feeling, it was as if it said "You will be safe" and it seemed to be gone.

Though, most people think that if you believe really deeply in god your life will be easier. God helps everyone, a lot. But he doesnt make their problems go away, or fight their battles. My best friend says that, he says that in my hard times of life I just need to believe in god really hard. I need gods help, but I cant completely rely on him.

Through all that, Im completely Christian. I believe in god, and always will, through my happiest times, or my hardest times. I always will.


I think the main reason there is religion, is that everyone needs someone more powerful than them, or must be controlled by something. Whether its true or they make it up.
It can also be used as a way to control. If you had an empire, that was out of control. No one went to work, or believed in anyone, they just believed that once they died they died. Tell them that if they are good they have hapiness when they die, if they do crime they go to hell when they die. That will surely straighten them up.

Interesting thread idea, HyPN0

Me, I'm an atheist. Always have been, always will be. It's not just the way I've been brought up, it's something I have reflected upon intensively and I, for myself, have come to the conclusion that I do not have faith. That's what I see atheism as: a state of total lack of faith in any kind of divinity.

As far as the origin of religion is concerned, I think I read that humans have a built-in "religion gene" (don't take that literal). What this means is that we are predestined to fill the big gaps in our knowledge, the ones that really concern or worry us, with ... something. I'd say imagination, but that would probably come across as a bit flamey.

Anyway, you get the picture. The idea is probably that we -or rather our brains- can cope with very frightening, disturbing or exceedingly complex concepts without totally losing it. The concept of our own mortally, for instance, is one of the most difficult things to cope with, at least when you have reached that point in your life where you truely understand "it can happen to you, too", and you start to think and worry and wonder what comes "after". Religion can provide an answer where otherwise there would only be doubt and fear.

I wouldn't say that it has outlived its usefulness by now. Obviously, many people still have a strong need for religion. Demand for it seems to increase the worse off people are in general. Many see it the other way around and observe that people who live the easy life turn away from religion. I for one have had a couple of difficult years in my life, where I had to life off very very little. Of course, that was still by far not as bad as starving in a really southern poor country, and I really can't say how I'd feel if I had been born into a different situation. Maybe I would feel very different then. Or maybe if my parens were religious, who knows.


In the immortal words of Star Trek Deep Space Nine's Major Kira:
"It doesn't work that way!"

Religion is based on faith. Either you have it, in which case proof is not required. Or you don't have it, in which case nothing will convince you anyway.

Try not to take ofence to anything I say, think of it as one side and argue against it please.

I find religion in the way it is presented to be barely believable - Christianity I think of mostly as it is my country's national religion. Afterlife to me seems to be merely people who can't bear to think that we only have 90 odd years hoping that there is more to it.

And the views of an omnipotent, omniscient and all-loving God is impossible in conjunction with any tragedy. He can never be all 3 traits with the things that have happened on earth.

My personal view is that there is some sort of 'entity' somewhere that created earth - but does not find humans any greater than anything else on the planet. At first he created a shiny new planet, then we humans started evolving and wrecking it up. Thus hes created 'science' to deal with us in due course. We just kill ourselves and do his work for him. I also don't think he could be too powerful, I reckon he's actually a small pawn in an entire hierarchy of Gods - we are only a small planet after all.

I say live and let live. I don’t believe in any god myself. But I have no problems with anyone else feeling that way. My mother always told me if it brings people comfort that’s great. Ill admit I do get annoyed when others preach about atheists like I’m some kind of savage, but that never really happens.

I do think there are some worthwhile things in religion, but I don’t think it makes you a better person because of it. That comes from somewhere else. But Ill always remembers one point that was brought up when I was at school.

A teacher was talking about a religious subject and mentioned that god chooses who lives and who dies. I immediately took offence to this and questioned why my step dad had died, but people who commit murders or war crimes were still alive.

That’s one of the main reasons; I can’t understand why a god would allow life to be such a misery for some. Another is what is written in these religious holy books and what we have discovered on our own is contradictory to each other. And it always troubled me why such a powerful omnipotent entity would “desire” to create such an imperfect and worthless existence. It seems almost cruel.

There are really all kinds of reasons and arguments, which don’t go anywhere. I take some as minor reasons to not believe. When it comes down to it though, the main thing that makes me think the way I do is because I believe a good life lived without religion is better than a good life lived because of religion.

If I did ever turn out to be wrong and there was some divine entity behind it all, I doubt I would be willing to bow and scrape. I can’t understand why I should do anything a god would want. Just as I would not do something another person would want. I don’t like facing judgement of one who hasn’t given me enough reason to do so.

I believe a god would need a creator, so why should I be awed and worship something that just came about differently than me. Truthfully when it gets down to it I think its just one big intergalactic fluke. And since an eternity of nothingness wont matter once your dead, just do what makes you feel better until the inevitable happens.

I have some proof that no God exists.... well any 'Good' god... if God was 'Good' and he did no evil, yet he created everything (It's in EVERY worship... except nilism of course...) which includes disease... which is pretty evil stuff... (Don't say he didn't create disease cause he did by creating bacteria)

Not to mention she sent Moses down to tell everyone they are all going to hell but a few, then once everyone changed their lifestyle to suit she sent down Jesus to say that she lied the first time and that few are going to hell now and some others aren't, then FINALLY she sent down Mohammad that he was just jacking all our strings and the first 2 groups of people will be going to heaven as well as another group but everyone else is going to hell, then she sent down the holiest lord spongebob squarepants and we all rejoice in his divine glory. Amen!

err...sorry to spam. I agree with Darkhunter's point, lots of people say that God likes to play sadistic games with us and doesn't interfer because thats not his nature. If its not his nature then why would there be a heaven? Because God forgot that freewill made Adam free? Please even I wouldn't forget about that and I worship Spongebob squarepants. Sorry if this starts a religious arguement.

You know, its a bit selfish to think that god just made the world for us. diseases - bacteria are also organisms, maybe he favours them more and we are just food for them.

Then why do we have SOOOOO many types of worship for him... if the world was made for ants, you could say bye to the Lords people right... now... *Begins developing Bio-Weapon to kill only ants...*

You're probably right.. I just don't believe in it since there's absolutely no proof of its existence in any form, Bible stories and religious beliefs aside.

I'm agnostic. As in I don't know - or rather, don't care. My main objection to the whole concept of a diety is that I don't believe anyone has the right to judge my actions. So if I die and there is nothing, great. If I die and there is something, still great. Really I don't care. I did that whole past life regression thing once, and I don't know if it was real. If it wasn't, it was still fantastic. Kind of like Total Recall - a holiday away from yourself.


I once got into an arguement with that by some dickhead who seemed to take objection that I commented about something he said in someone elses journal, and actually used the phrase "I was talking about instinctive arguements, not intellectual ones" which made me think that he was more than a tad up his own british boat, and makes me hate him to this day. Often Atheists seem to be a relgion to themselves, given that they assume superiority over everyone and preach their beliefs more feverantly than many relgious groups.

Of course if you're feeling cynical, just quote L. Ron Hubbard:

“If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.”

I just noticed I didn't state my own opinion!
How rude of me

Well, I don't belive in god (or gods) because of one simple reason: Injustice.

Some have too much, some have too little. Is that fair? Bible says that we're all god's children and we have equal rights. But we all know that modern society doesn't work that way.
Is it fair that Western Countryes have food and all the other goodies, and most people in Africa don't? Why does god allow that childeren die even if they didn't do anything wrong? People that were doing horible things in wars, why aren't they punished? Why are victims in wars not saved by god(s)?

Some people are born with an IQ of 150, and some are stuck with 50. Some people don't have arms or legs since they are born, why is that? Some live longer that other. Some are beautyful, but some are ugly. Why do some people suffer, but other people are happy?

Would god(s) allow this? I don't think so.
Also, Religion is not supported by facts. Just name me one proof of god's existance, and i will gladly start beliving in it.

For me IF there is a god or entity out there that might have had a hand in getting this whole universe started, I see him/her more as a kid with a snowglobe.

He picked it up and shook it really hard during the Big Bang and now is just sitting back and watching it swirl.

As just a small part of one of billions of flakes, it seems kind of pointless to come up with rules or reasonings as to what the kids intentions were in picking up the globe in the first place.

He/She may not have the ability to influence the whole thing any further, but to wait and shake it again when everything settles back down.

I feel I should answer too, since this thread was started partially because of our discussion in the polygamy thread mentioned by Hypno in the first post.

It's a very open issue, religion. I agree with so many others here. What it all boils down to is; if it makes people happy it's ok. Most religions have guidelines derived from common sense, like the ten commandments from Christianity. If we had no Chritianity in ancient times, do you think we would believe it was ok to steal, kill etc.? (not talking about Oblivion here now! )

And like also mentioned above, Europe was Christened with blades. Those who would not accept the Roman church and it's beliefs were killed. Simple as that. Anyone spoke up against God or Jesus, they were hung, decapitated etc. Not a good way to spread a religion, I think.

But I know several people who were not religious, but who say that they suddenly got a message from God, saw visions etc, turning them into hardcore Christians. Who am I to doubt them? Most of these were acquaintances from my time as a full time musician, and they had various problems, mostly related to drugs. So now, instead of perhaps being dead by overdoses etc, they are now completely clean from drugs, and dedicate their free time helping other people with personal problems. Very admirable.

So even though I consider myself a non-believer, simply bacause I'm also the kind of guy who need 'proof' and that I believe in science, I also believe that there is more 'out there' that the eye can see.

I believe that humans had far more developed senses in the past, with no pollution and when no more than perhaps 100 people lived together in camps, compared to maybe 20 million in cities now. Image all the interference emitting from so many people living practically together! I believe we all - every living thing - share a common form of link that we felt much stronger a few million years ago. We could probably communicate without speaking, not only with other humans, but with every living object.

My mother (who suffers from whiplash, and has lead a very tough life since she got hit by that car, including two suicide attempts) recently went to a healer, and she is a VERY sceptical individual. She said that she could clearly feel the warmth from the healer's hands, although she (the healer) never touched her. For the next few days she had excruciating pain in her neck/back/head (where whiplash works), but at least she knew that the healer had reached something in her. No other treatments (and she's tried it all) has had any affect on her. She's booked a new session, and I'm as excited as she is about it.

Btw the healer was about 30 years old, and she had a full schedule, and was also recommended by educated physicians! She works from out of Klepp (I think) in Norway, so at least one other forum member here would probably know who she is, although I can't remember who at the moment...

Anway (sorry about the sidetrack), I'm quite open for anything, but I'd like to see proof of things before I believe in it. This makes religions a bit off for me, since they all tell you what to believe and not believe, something I find just as bad as dictatorship.

Personally, I'm not sure what I believe in. Religion is a hard subject for me to speak about because I don't know what I believe, I have my own code that I live by built upon what I see to be right or wrong, not by what is written in a book. I believe that life begins to end, from the moment you are born you are simply here to die, what you do with your life is up to you.

At times I think that people are just a random occurance, simply here because the conditions of the planet allowed us to form and become alive. People are the only beings on earth conscious of their existance which somehow pushes me to believe that we have been placed here for some reason.

I don't know what to expect after death so I'm living my life for myself, right now.

Since I'll never know if there is life after death I'm living my life the best I can right now so that people will judge me by the fact that I was a good man. That's what I hope to accomplish with my life, not to be accepted into an afterlife but to be remembered as a good person by those who knew me in this world.

I'm glad to be able to express my thoughts on a subject like this here, there aren't many forums where people can have an intelligent discussion about religion without some jerk flaming or trying to convert them to their religion and for that I'm pleased to have this place.

I dont belive in a god or goddess or anything in a matter of fact... and this is something that realy boders me at night sometimes... if there is truly a god and he put us on earth... why? is this some sort of sick and sadistic joke?... that we are doom to die since the beggining of our birth... that many die unjustly and so many more are tormented in diferrent levels of anguish... and he or she does nothing but sit and watch as all unfolds before his eyes... how generations and generations of men and women die in his name... even if there is a god I would not worship him... or look up to him for hope...

maybe its because I'm young and iggnorant but this is what I truly believe in the deepest bowels of my heart... and if I would to say something else it would be a lie... it might be sad but true...

no matter what I believe... I try not to jude others by their religion... and I also try to respect their belives... no matter how much I'm against it or despise it...

i don't believe in any of this god, jesus crap. (no offense to those who do) which im not sure but i think that makes me a aetheist?

Religion eh?
Well first of all, I don't belive in christianity in the way that the church has thought us in all these years.
There is so much more to it. I do belive that there is something to this Jesus guy, and it don't hurt to read about his wise words. There is lots of books and writings that the church keeps hushed down, I mean like the meanings in this Davinci Code for example.
Jesus even talks about reincarnation, IN THE BIBLE, which is interpreted differently by the church. But don't ask me in where in the Bible that is, I don't personally understand it, it's just what I learned in school. (But if you insist I could look it up for you.)
But I do belive that there is so much more to this world then what we see and can figure out with science.
And I do belive that there is an afterlife and that we have souls, and that there is much we humans have still to learn about our souls and this world and beyond.

I don't believe in any religion whatsoever, jsut doesn't appeal to me. But that's just me, feel free to believe whatever you want folks (not that i could stop you anyway )
And's that's pretty much all i have to say on the subject. Sorry for those who expected some kind of long, well thought out reply

EDIT: On second thoughts, my original statement may have been offensive ot more religious people, so i've replaced it

just out of... Da Vinci was a scientist, a smart guy and observator to the world, mostly. All this hype about him being the greatest conspirator against catholic church of all time is simply not to be taken all too serious. He was just a guy, who quite naturally opposed everything church told the people, as he saw, and understood how the world really works. I believe that he wouldn't have put secret messages in his works, simply because he didn't care. He was a sarcastic type of person, but he didn't like to argue about things, being useless to him. There is also too much being freely available nowadays for the catholic church being able to keep her dignity... if people would start to think for themselves for once...
Anyway that just as a sidenote.

For me religion is a great thing for people who need it. Wanna believe in Allah? Fine. In Jahwe, Jesus, El, Baal..? Right. Believe in Lucifer or bloody Vampires? I don't care, as long as everybody may freely think/believe what he wants to think/believe. Religion, just as everything else what human beings do, is a good thing, until it gets institutionalized, used out of will to power.

Ahhh damn, i gotta stop throughing my cents around, getting poor real fast that is...

Well, Da Vinci code was a bad example to put here, my mistake. There is not much in that book that could be concidered as "accurate" information. The only message that there is there, is about Maria Magdalena, who was Jesus wife. And that is that there sure was such a person.

. . . Uh . . . Where do you find this information? In my 13 years of being indoctrinated in the Christian faith I have never came across that. Actually I did, in some talk with a conspiracy theorist.

Anyways..

Organized Religion = Teh Suckz

The Faith = Great

I am a horrible christian, I don't go to church on sundays, I scoff at our communion because the wafers taste stale, and I think our pastor is Hitler incarnate. (I do the hail hitler thing to him every time)

But your faith, your belief, is what is in your heart. And I believe that Jesus Christ, Son of God, died on the cross for the atonement of our sins. As such, because I've repent (to Jesus, not a preacher, or a pope) my soul has been save from the blazing damnation of hell.

God does not condem anyone to death. In the begining (after god created everything) Adam and Eve messed it up for the rest of us.. Giving ourselves free will...

I'll continue later, the Prez is speaking.. (oh buddy)

Daedra worship for me!

Heh. Just kidding.

I'm Atheist myself. I simply believe that if you live your life the way you want to, do good deeds, be a good person, and make some sort of impact on this earth, then you go to your own personal paradise. I don't like to believe that there is simply nothing after death.

I like to believe what the ancient Egyptians believed about death; that it is only the beginning of a journey.

well if you have to believe in god to go to heavan i guess im going to hell. i mean c'mon all we have is a 3000 page sleeping pill as proof. for evolution we have a little thing called proof.

I dont remember what religion this relates to actually, but I always remember being told a certain religious story at one primary school I had to go to (where they forced you to pray), and it stuck with me. Its about some pharaoh, persecuting people, god gets angry and does all this vengeful stuff. Now some of this for some reason, involved killing kids.

It always stuck with me how barbaric some of these religions used to be. That changed mostly now I think, at least in some cases. Just that the wrath of God in that particular story sounded just like the wrath of an all powerful sicko. Not really something a benevolent God would do?

I dont know what the problem with that davinci code is though. Most religious people I meet seem to think its just based on a load of rubbish. And I think its just a bit of fiction myself. So I dont see what all that controversy is about. Let those who wanna watch it watch it and those that dont, dont. Same should be said for everything if you ask me, no more "Oooo! That offends my beliefs!".

What? people are opposing the da vinci code now? Jeeze some people are stupid, there was a sudden increase of people being offended after the Danish cartoon (which I actaully thought was very bad but I can understand how someone wouldn't realise its offence), the Muslims got applogies so several other religions got jealous *cough*Catholics*cough* and decided they needed to get offended by everything in hopes of some attention. I'm not saying all catholics are attention seeking whores, just a lot of attention seeking whores decided to be catholic

ummm... Actually the Catholics were offended by the Da Vinci Code in the 80's (or was it the 90's?) and the Muslims were insulted... this year.
What I find odd is: The Muslims have one little cartoon make fun of thier religon and they get all kinds of land from other countries, and money.... the list goes on.... just beacuse thier a minority.

While the main stream Christians are insulted everyday by: Family Guy, The Simpsons, Etc.... And the Christians get nothing, just because thier a majority. Thats absolute Bull-****.

Really though its just about how many extra rights a minority get over regular people. I don't really care about Religon.

I didn't know about them with the Da vinci code, but I have seen them try to ban Family guy, South park and a few others since the Muslim thing, not sure about simpsons. And are you sure its the Catholics who are offended by the Da Vinci code? I would have thought it would be the Cathars (or however you spell it) since they are shown as an extreme Christian cult when they are just a slightly strange religious group. Muslim thing is offensive because it is offensive to draw the prophet Mohammad in certain Muslim denominations (not all which is why there have been some paintings around), you may also notice those denominations also don't have pictures of their families for religious reasons so you can understand how serious it is, it is like assualting one of their family members; which is a lot worse than south park. The reason South Park can get away with insulting majorities is because several people who make the cartoons are likely to be Catholic and the writers most likely are friends with multiple Catholics, its just kidding around, the Danish cartoons however were done perhaps with good intentions but also with a lot of ignorance and not everyone is going to see it for the first.

Man, the point wasn't the religon... It was the Bull about Minorities and them getting everything just cause of a little insult. Like, hell, I've been made fun of all me life, harrased beaten by other people etc... But just cause I'm Catholic & Irish I get nothing, but if most of that happened to a African kid and he told, then there would be lawsuits, sueing and a whole scandal about it. I just think its unfair that minorities get sooo much exra.

I feel I need to find my spirituality. Unfortunately for me, that is no easy task. I go by the term Agnostic, though its unsuited to me.

Ironically, his real last name, Duchovny, can be roughly translated to Serbian as "Spiritual"


"Nail in my hand/By my creator
You gave me life/Now show me how to live"
[Audioslave, Show me how to live]

I am babtised as an Orthodox Christian. I am probably The Worst Orthodox Christian in the country (although, nowadays competition is preety rough ). I still honor our saints and Jesus (proper name is Isus Hristos), but God... I am angry with him. Not at all scared, but angry. If I get a chance to meet him after the death I'll use that oportunity to tell him what a lousy job he's doing - no matter what happens. Hypno has the right idea about suffering, but ony to some point. We all need to feel the pain to be aware of it. We all need to sense suffering in order to (at least) try and imagine how someone else feels, because empathy really doesen't exist in real world. And finaly, we all feel the need to explain things to ourselves - why are we here, on Earth, what is our purpose, where are we 'going'... Eating, Sleeping, Defecation, Procreation - what's the point ? I do believe someone created Universe, but it is completely different matter if that 'someone' is truly interested in us, or is he/she/it interested in us more then, say, ants ? And if so, why is that - so we could slaughter animals and rape nature on daily basis without overwhelming feeling of guilt ? Meh. I still think he's doing a lousy job, and I think so in a very 'John Constantine' way (sorry about my male shovinism ).


Indeed. People who like to bash Jesus Christ forget that he was a man how, in the first place, torn down the dogma that surrounded Jewish religion in those days. He was a man, before everything else, that preached tolerance, understanding, morality and love. And he was the man who died because of his beliefs. I MIGHT not hold too much respect for God in my heart nowadays, but I hold respect for his son and every other martyr, regardless of their religion, who led a good, moral life. I know I caould not be like that in a million years, but I know that much to honor them. And that is why I still go to church - because of Jesus's messages and because of our own patron saintess, St. Petka.


Let's just face it - we're all a bunch of horrible heretics and we're all going to Hell ! ® Muahahahaha !

I guess I just don't get offended easily, but I will agree with Darkhunter.. it always seems the minority has the biggest voice..

Heh, I'm going to go watch Family Guy now

Channler, it seems to me the gigantic religious right from the bible belt has a voice that deafens all others, but that's just me.

Also, you agree for those two parts in the bible (two sentences in the whole book), and I don't mean to offend, but you simply pick and choose which parts to believe in and which parts not to?

I could make a lot of critical judgments about the bible. For instance, if Jesus died on a certain date, just as he was born on a certain date, and then he again walked the Earth just a week later, why isn't the date of his death and the date when he resurrected stapled, as is the date of his birth? How come the date he died changes every year in relation to the moon? Well, one answer is because that date is phony, based on the spring equinox, a holiday already celebrated at the time of easter-week, by the romans. When they were trying to spread christianity to the Romans, they used their holidays already in place, and just the changed the meanings of the holidays. I could go on about that for a long time, but I'll leave it at just that one example.

You don't follow organized religion, then do you give yourself the freedom to believe which parts of the bible you want. I know the born-again (and mormon, and jahova's witness) tradition is that only 144,000 people make it paradise at the end of the world, despite the millions of the people that think they're going to be one of those 144,000.

I know most religions along the Jesus-worship line say you are a sinner because you have free will, and that only if you accept jesus will you be saved, why did only the jews get a chance to accept jesus? Why didn't every group of people on earth from every corner get a chance to accept jesus before they died on their own terms, instead of being forced to wait for crazy ministers preaching that they have to clothe themselves and that condoms are evil?

That is my main problem, and again I mean no offense, and I hope nothing I say gives reason for this topic to be closed or for it to lose its civility, but do you believe despite the fact that I tremble indignation at every injustice, and that I weep at murder and greed, because I chose to be faithful to something that isn't Jesus, something unnamed, because I do not believe he died on the cross for my sins, no matter how much I try at every end of my life to do good and bring peace, I will be forced to go to Hell?

Yeah and what's wrong about that? Everyone should being able to choose what's fine for him.
The bible is a book written originally, i mean the Thora part at least, to give laws to men. Simple rules so that they wouldn't kill themselves for each banality.
If you wanna believe in things like you may only eat animals with hooves, nothing what grows in the sea etc... fine.
If you get attracted by "rules" like you are not to be member of god's community if your balls are scretched or not working properly (which indeed is stated in Exodus...) fine.
If you don'T get alarmed that a god who preaches modesty and poorness, commands his priests to put gold/silver/censer huge crowns, huge altars etc. into the tabernacle (i believe Exodus and Numeri and somewhere in the Deuteronomium as well... fine.

With everything being on the one hand a practical book, constitution of a state/community if you will, and everything what is plain idioty in the first part, old testament, the torah, everything gets topped by the new one.

This was written by order, just to convince all the people who thought the religion was nonesense of it's truth.
When that didn't work, they forbid everyone to read that book with free thoughts and: They didn't teach anybody how to read it. Masses were held in latin, which nobody spoke etc.
Later on, and i'm somewhere around 1480, where "Malleus Malificarum" was published, church began immensly to use it's power for plain profit, killing hundreds of thousands, millions on the way.

Ah i see i get a little confused here but my point still: I don't understand that in a world, where everybody is boasting with his "intelligents", being the master of animals, natures topmost creation... nobody (and this goes for the islamic world, just as for the hindu as well) just realizes how stupid this whole thing is. The institutionalized church... It would suffice to read those goddamn books. Read the Torah, read the Bible and the Koran or even the Vedas.... All the same, all the way, all the time...
2000 years propaganda and still going on. Killing, Murder, Battle for nothing. Instead of living in a paradise on earth, where everybody just accepts his neighbour, letting him believe or do what he wants, living in fraternity without constantly trying to be better, wiser, stronger, richer etc. than anybody else, we chose the easy way. Waiting for a paradise that will never come.

I agree with DarkHunter, that minorities get to whine and get rewarded for stuff that just goes under the bridge when it happens to majority members. Unfair!

Concerning religious belief, there seems to be an inordinate ammount of atheists/agnostics at this site. But I think that most of you are young and that is the time for questioning and searching for what you really do believe in.
After awhile events and happenstance in your life will bring you to the way of things - if for you it is God or Jesus that you see as the prime mover that is good. If you just believe in a central benevolent force that is how it shall be. But I think you'll find that there is some sort of divine intervention, if you will, at work rescuing even the clueless at times and turning the intolerable into new experience leading to untold adventure.

*Duchovney = Spiritual. I like that, thank you Olav.

Ehh it was milanius that translated it .....from serbic(?)

Anyway I won´t really participate in any religious discussions, because religion doesn´t mean that much to me. I say live and let live.......

Serbian
Or ''Srpski'' in our language

Ahhh ok thank for telling me..I actually didn´t know!..Srpski......you guys don´t like vowels do you?...just one..and in the end of the word.....hilarious!

Well, actualy we do use a lot of vowels
But not in some words. For example ''Prst'' which means ''finger''. I can pronounce it properly with ease, but it's really amusing to see some of the western people try this
Plus we have something that is called ''padeži'' that I actualy have no idea how to explain to you, being that not a lot of languages have this . Read about it here under ''morphology''.We also have a lot of dialects, and listen to this: Two diffrent alphabets, Cyrillic and Latinic.

My language is among the hardest languages in the world (obviusly).

I dunno, nearly every word we use in English today has a far different meaning then what we think it means. (I was forced to read the dictionary one day )

Haha, what was the word?

theres :Dude = small, weak baby
Babe = (obviously) baby
Spirit = sence of belonging (I think the dictionary smokes weed)
I can't remember the rest...

How I understand these words:
Dude - A male friend said in a cool manner.
Babe - An attractive young woman.
Spirit - Ghost or any kind of ''ethernal'' being. Or in some cases a soul.

Anyway, this is a religion thread, not a language thread.
So let's swich back to religion