Darkwater Den is a great home, but it's too complete. My character Hot-Lips doesn't want to be reminded that she hasn't collected any of the Dragon masks, or claws, or paragons, or...

So she found the ruin at the bottom of the Eastern end of Lake Ilinata, and after clearing a bit of rubble, opened the door beneath it. There was a small ruin that just needed a bit more rubble moved out, and would be quite inhabitable.

I'll be stealing ideas from Arthmoor's Volkihar Castle cleanup, and using rubble piles as activators to clear rooms, except that I'll take it a bit further with the way they block the room, and there will be Hearthfire workbenches in the resulting empty rooms. You'll make the furniture in the same way, but you won't build the house, you'll just dig it out.

So far I have:
Underwater entrance to suit an Argonian.
Nice damp ambience, with roots and moss in the main living areas - greenish lighting.
Kitchen and Armory/Forge are clear of roots and moss and have regular yellow candlelight / orange forge glow.

Rooms are:

• Partially flooded passage with stairs up to entrance hall
• Entrance hall/dining room which connects to
  • Armory/forge
  • Kitchen
  • Bedroom (large enough for parents and kids)
• Bedroom connects to
  • Enchanting lab
  • Alchemy lab (with secret door to shore exit)
• Secret passage to shore exit.

The exit on shore is undecided - I'd like to use a large hollow tree to hide it.

I've connected to rubble and clutter in front of the underwater door to a parent marker which will all be disabled by the quest that gets you the ownership. I want to do something similar to the Orc one, where you do a number of "favor" quests for Argonians to deserve the home, as well as doing all the building, but I'm not sure there are enough of those. Rescuing Derkeethus, of course, but what else?

I haven't yet Nav-meshed the interior, or placed the log for the shore entrance. I still need to add a lot more clutter, including the bookshelves, weapon racks etc. that take so long to connect up. And I can't show you any screenshots until I get the new server built.

It turns out that there are only six available quests that will count. Three in Riften (not including From-Deepest-Fathoms!) and three in Windhelm docks. They include some theft, but no murders. I'm thinking only two needed this time, instead of the five for the Orc Stronghold, where a lot more were available, especially mining.

This sounds great, ghastley! I’m glad you’ve reduced the favor quests since there are so few for Argonians. Rescuing Derkeethus is a pretty big deal for most of my characters since the Falmer are tough.

I love the flooded entrance idea. The shore entrance hidden in a hollow tree or stump sounds excellent. Yay, some love for the Saxhleel!

Good luck with your server building. I’m looking forward to seeing the pictures when you’re ready!

I love the idea of the hollow tree exit a lot! It is unique, I haven't seen that in Skyrim. Also love the idea of questing and favors to earn the right to live there, so much more fun than an outright purchase.

When I first saw Arthmoor's idea of being able to pick up the rubble with Player activation - to me that was the greatest thing imaginable for roleplay! I was really excited about downloading that mod, but didn't do it after reading the comments page.

For some reason it was very buggy in his mod, I don't remember why (only that there were a lot of complaints on his comment page).

That really surprised me because Arthmoor most def beta tests his mods. (so not sure what the issue turned out to be).

But I have loved that idea since I heard it. This mod sounds Awesome!

I've used it, and it's not buggy. It can, and probably does, conflict with some other mods, but probably more relevant is that this is the mod he offered to Steam for the paid mods trial. He got a lot of bogus reports because of that.

Plus the rubble piles don't have flashing signs over them, so a lot of players had issues determining where to dig, and moaned about that. Some were the other side of a door from the rubble they cleared, although in the same cell, and there were two that were pillars, not piles. The only issue I had was that the floor piles used the wrong animation, due to a keyword error on the furniture.

There are weapon plaques that are too high for a short character to use, but that's because I went below the standard height using the RaceMenu mod. I'd have liked a few other things to be different, but they weren't wrong.

Back to my own mod: I nav-meshed the area yesterday, and now Derkeethus follows.

I still need to add the complex items, like mannequins, bookshelves, weapon racks/plaques, that need a lot of pieces linked together. Then I have to make a list of items that can be constructed, and add keywords, inventory items, recipes for each of them, and finally adapt the scripts and fill in their properties. Since I've done all that once for the Orc version, I at least know how this time round. If I can remember the details, that is. I placed the log pile on the shore, and it has the same issue I started with on the Orc mod. It won't show the current log count, until I hook it up to a quest alias somehow.

There will be a few significant differences. Goat horns aren't needed at all, as the wall sconces and chandeliers are all nordic ruin style, and don't use them. The interior doors are all iron ones, that will need extra ingots instead of logs. You'll need a lot less clay, too, as there aren't any exterior walls to build, and only a few interior items (smelter, planters, oven) need it.

Still undecided is whether to allow furnishing to start before the whole space is cleared. There are six rooms and two entry/exit passages, and only the rooms will have rubble. I could allow furnishing a room to start after its own rubble is cleared, and all doors in place, or I could just enable the workbench for everything only after it's all clear. Keeping it simple is appealing, but letting the player choose not to have an enchanting lab by simply leaving the rubble is too. Of course, they can clear it, and just not furnish it, so it's not a strong argument that way.

I want the shore exit to be an entrance, too, so I have to experiment with a trigger to activate the door at that end. It will probably work like the rowboats, where there's a relay to the actual door which is hidden (below the ground right now). The door marker, which is where you arrive when you use the door, gets placed where it's needed, and isn't a constraint.

Aha, now that explains a lot! Thank you for explaining that, because those complaints are the whole reason I didn't download that mod - I wanted it, and loved the idea of cleaning up the house like that.

Thanks Ghastley!








The idea of building your own home with raw materials is one I have been very excited about doing since I got Hearthfire, (but haven't gotten to try it out yet). I really love that you are putting so much for the Player to do in this mod, that makes it so much more fun for me.

I love all your plans for this mod, can't wait till you start showing screens of it!

I made a few screenshots this weekend, then decided that the place needed more clutter, and deleted them again and opened up the CK to add more stuff. I never got round to re-shooting the screenshots.

I'm wasting a lot of time trying to get the "make Friends" quests working the way the Orc ones did. They look identical, apart from the Argonian race replacing the Orc one, but they just won't start. Usually that means there are alias-fillling issues, but I just can't see them for looking.

Oops. I’m happy to hear the progress! I hope the solution to the Argonian quest issues presents itself without delay.

That is so strange that just changing the race of the quest NPC's affected the quest working! I know you will find the cause, you are too tenacious not to, lol. I just hope it doesn't take long and involves no frustrating moments like I was having till you helped me several times in the past!

Did some reshooting after adding some of the clutter (all of which still needs enable parents, etc.)

Hot-Lips at the front door under Lake Ilinalta. This area is covered in rubble in the base game, and the rubble pile is removed and the door added when you're notified of the site. Map marker is enabled, too.

Derkeethus at the back door in the log. The back door doesn't exist until the secret exit is built.

The living room which needs more clutter, and the troll skull shouldn't be falling through the shelf!

The bedroom needs plants (or provision for planting). It has bookshelf space for 60 books, and child beds/chests for adoption.

The kitchen is about right.

The workshop needs clutter.

I still need to add some weapon racks and stuff to the Alchemy lab and the Enchanting lab. Lots of fiddly pieces and scripts to wire up. When I finish placing the furnishings, the I have to make the recipes and misc items to build it all, and finally cover it all in rubble so you can dig it out!

I love the idea of having to unearth it! That troll skull in the living room tickled me, it fits perfectly with the idea of the house being an archaeological find/dig - kind of a clue to the original residents? Anyway, I love it!

It looks great, ghastley! I love how the green roots make the atmosphere feel not just underground but also under a lake. I like your balance of furnishings and space. Lots of homes are too big, and many are too crowded. Yours are just how I like them.

Making some progress. I now have the rubble clearing part of the mod working.

Clearing rubble

The process of hooking all the clutter to its enable parents and populating the Formlists and properties for the furniture construction is the really tedious part, so I've left that the last. But now I'm running out of other things to do!

I'm beginning to think that the problem I've had with the Argonian favour quests is that the same people are counted for the city ones, so I may abandon that completely, and just hook it on the end of From-Deepest-Fathoms quest to return the Lexicon to Avanchnzel. She doesn't give the player anything for doing it, and this would fill that loose end. Map by courier avoids any new dialog being needed.

Yeah, it is working! Er... I changed around my E and space bar because I like being able to use E for jump and space bar to activate; would that be a problem for the mod?

Yay for your progress!

I’ve had From-Deepest-Fathoms die in some of my games due to dragon attacks on the Riften docks, but the uesp tells me that her quest can be started by taking the Lexicon from her coffin. I mention it for the wording of your note in the event of F-D-F’s demise.

Activation is taken care of by the game engine. The mod just has to catch the notification.

So that means no problem? That's great news!

These last three mods you have made, it has really been exciting watching as they progress from the original inspiration through the problem solving to bring them to life; and they are a blast to play in, too! You always amaze me even when I know you will do something, just seeing all you had to do to get there!

I have a number of bugs still to work out, but the recipes, Misc Item tokens, and the scripts and linkages are all in place. My test characters have cleared the rubble, and built all the furnishings. The bookshelves and mannequins work, but the weapon racks don't. And I have a few lights that flick on and off depending on which way you're facing. I haven't put in room-bounds and portals yet, which may fix that issue.

I still need to build the quest that puts it all in sequence, and enables the site and its map marker, but that's all stuff I know how to do. I can start the quest from a kicker that triggers off the player leaving either of the two dungeons for the rescue and lexicon quests, and if the quests are both completed, send the courier.

One little thing I need to fiddle with is the rubble clearing. You find some useful materials in the rubble (taken from a leveled list) such as iron ore, empty bottles you can smelt into glass, and quarried stone. I just have a simple list that makes each item equally likely at present, but I should probably bias it to getting reusable stone more than anything else. Any ideas what to add as rare finds? The script, which is a simplified version of the mining one, has parameters for how many hits it takes to get something out, and how many times to cycle before the rubble is cleared. I'll fiddle with those settings a bit, when I adjust the list for the found items.

Also, there's the usual starter chest with some materials in it, but since you're not building a "small house" at the beginning, I need to decide on what's helpful, bearing in mind the loot from the rubble.

We've now reached the "but how can something so simple not work?" stage.

I still have the problem of the two sets of weapon racks not working. They're identical to the ones that work in the Orc version, as far as I can tell.

There's a simple trigger zone at the entrance to advance the quest, so you complete the "find the place" stage and move on to the "clear the rubble" stage. It doesn't do anything.

And just about every detail is baked into the save, so I have to start a new test character each time I try to fix anything. This is getting tedious.

On the positive side, the courier works, and delivers the right letter to tell the player about the ruin. I discovered that the courier depends on the player changing location to get its starting event, so standing in one place and waiting will make him take forever!

Some thoughts:
The player needs a pickaxe to clear the rubble. Should I leave one in the rubble near the entrance, in case the player doesn't bother carrying one?
The secret door is currently made constructable when you've made the beds, on the grounds that you need an escape route once you made provision for a family. Should anything else be required?
My current smelter recipe for glass requires 6 empty bottles for one unit. Should that be less? There are only three items that need glass - Alchemy Lab, Enchanter, and a single display case.

I love the idea that the rubble produces usable productive materials! Wonder what is causing the issue with the weapon racks?









I vote to place a pickaxe in the area, just for convenience sake.

Maybe make a key from the iron for the secret door?

As long as you have placed enough supplies to actually complete the project, I don't think the number required should be lessened.

That's just my 2 cents, lol.

Freshly made weapon racks in vanilla Hearthfires don't work until you leave the cell and re-enter. I suspect there's an aspect of the buggy OnCellLoad code that doesn't work here.

Pickaxe will be supplied. I can put it under the pile of rubble that normally hides the outside door, and is disabled when you get the letter. That way it won't get picked up too early.

I don't mean the secret door recipe, I mean the pre-requisites. The secret door only appears in the list of things to build after you made the beds, but I'm wondering if anything else should be built first.

I've actually tried to make the found items insufficient, so that you do need to gather things elsewhere. You'll need to mine ores, and buy straw. Empty wine bottles are a common clutter item in many dungeons, so they're easy to find. The potential issue is the weight of empties required, and that's not too bad at 18. However, you need a matching set of six to make glass, and there are three or four varieties of empty wine bottles. All types can be used, but if you have five of each, you can't do anything!

I'll be supplying a leather strip in the starter chest, so you can bootstrap the tanning rack to make more. Similarly, there will be enough iron ingots to make a smelter, so you only need iron ore once you make that. I'll take out the rest of the clay, as you can mine that close by, and you don't need much (just the oven and planters use it, I think) as there are no walls to make here.

Is that "On cell load" error why people were doing double load areas between the main door of the house and the house interior? I heard about people doing that so the game would load the interior without errors (or some reason like that - can't remember exactly why).

They were making an interior room that was totally empty except marker headings and the player would load into one side of the room and land at that marker heading; then be automatically moved to the next door directly across from the one they just entered into; and then automatically loaded into the real interior of the house - I've got the whole thing laid out somewhere in my notes, but never used it because I didn't know enough about how it worked or why.

Very possible, but like you, I won't do it until I understand it.

Same here. Here is the article I read about it, but it was a bit over my head so I backed out slowly till I could find out what I was doing:



http://bertscktutorial.ucoz.com/index/over...double_load/0-8

That looks like something I don't want to need.

I sincerely hope I don't need it, but might since my basement is over the allowable size limit - and it has almost nothing in it, but a bit of fog.

It's got to the point where it needs other people to tell me what they don't like. Everything seems to work now, but I'm a bit uncertain if the lumber purchase works if you build this before any vanilla homes.

Version 0.1

Some icons are missing from the wiki page, but that doesn't stop you using the mod.

Note that only two rooms have rubble. I may put rubble in the side-rooms later, if I can devise a way to let you start furnishing the rooms you cleared, before doing them all. This uses the simple method of not enabling the workbench until all rubble is gone, and the more complex option may need multiple workbenches.

You won't get materials at a steady rate as you dig. The random item includes a 25% chance of nothing, and equal chances of a bottle, an iron ingot, or one or two pieces of stone. It takes six empty bottles to make one unit of glass, so you may not get enough to make one.

Expect at least one revision, as I learn how to light properly. The bedroom has problems.

There are no meshes or textures, as everything used is vanilla. The bsa contains only scripts.

Also under consideration for later: at least one shrine (Hist?) to allow home cures of disease.

Edit: fixed a bunch of broken stuff that requires a restart, so undid the link. I'll post a new download soon.

This one might be worth downloading.

Version 0.2

It has the missing SEQ file that stopped the dialog with the lumber vendors, and corrects the door model. Lighting is better, but not perfect. I'm not sure the remaining issues aren't bugs in the rendering engine, as I keep seeing the same thing in the base game. All the icons are in the doc, so if this works for everyone, it will get uploaded to the Nexus as is.

Downloaded! Thank you, Ghastley!!!

Thank you, ghastley! I’ll get a new Argonian going and report on 0.2.

I could waiting a long time if you're starting a fresh game. The Derkeethus rescue is a tough task for a low-level character, as the chaurus are a minimum level 12.

For testing, my characters bypassed the pre-requisite tests with "Startquest BYOCIlinaltaDen" via the console. I checked the kick-off with an existing character, that had already done the other quests, by taking them back to Avanchzel and leaving again. More than one, just to be sure, so Prizna the Dremora, and Thudd the Orc have both been digging.

OK, thanks for the tip! I'll refresh my memory on the quests and pick an existing character.

Jensa had not done either quest, so I ran her through them both quick. She accidentally found the courier before he found her since I forgot about Arthmoor’s Provincial Courier mod. He gave her the letter and she headed over to excavate the den.

It looks awesome so far. I love the entrance and the interior space, and the location is beautiful. Stenvar followed her in and sandboxed including using a rubble pile (to no effect of course), which was funny. It’s neat to find items in the rubble.

Outside I found a slightly floating fern, but it may be due to the Helgen Reborn mod which changes the area higher up on the hill. Helgen Reborn looks compatible so far. I have not found the workbench and log pile yet, so I have to go back and check for rubble that I missed.

This is really neat, ghastely!

Oh, and I think a Hist shrine is a great idea.

I think the floating fern is in the original game, as I saw it, too. I fixed a couple more floating plants in the mod, but missed that one. I can never find it in the CK when I look for it.

The workbench and log pile aren't enabled until the rubble is cleared.

I went back to re-do the rubble piles without Stenvar in the way, and this time it worked perfectly. Got the notices every time a pile cleared and the quest updated after the last pile. This is a very old and abused save, so I also took it slower this time to give the scripts time to run. Workbench and log pile right where they should be. Trouble was on my end, yay!

Jensa had most of the materials she needed to make the furnishings, but she needs a few items to finish up tomorrow. Then she’ll do some planting, torture test the book shelves, fill the weapon racks, and the like. Of course she tried out the bed already. Lover’s Comfort, woo!

I love the layout and the furnishings. It’s dark enough to feel underground and Argonian-damp, but still cozy with fine things around. Awesome job, ghastley!

You'll probably find that one of the shelves has restless book syndrome. I think one of the dummy locations is too tight to the end or back and sets the rest off.

I wanted three-shelf bookcases for the space they're in and the pre-made ones were two or four. The first shelf took forever, but the rest were copy/pasted. Why only one gets a problem is as yet unsolved.

You may also find the mannequins behaving the way they notoriously do. I gave them their own nav-mesh islands to try and keep them in place, but they still manage to wander. Mine levitate, too.

BTW The floating fern is a side-effect of lowering the bank slightly when I took the ground level below the entry door inside the ruin.

Ok, Jensa did some decorating and is ready to report.

First, I love the secret door! I love it a lot!

As predicted the mannequins like to levitate and the bookshelves don’t like big books. Those dang bookshelves!

My planters do not have soil in them. This could be another case of old save file couldn’t keep up with the building, so I’ll try with Jensa again from the rubble clearing before I build the den with another character.

I applaud the way you handled the challenges of curved walls with furniture. The only change I would suggest is maybe try round rugs under or bedside the children’s beds.

I’d like to see two weapon plaques on that screen that has one plaque on it, one over the other like in Vlindrel Hall. Also I think there are a few empty curved corners that might look nice with a display area there, maybe a screen with a couple of hanging shelves on it.

I like the openness, but I would also like a little more furniture storage in the crafting areas. I’m always worried about barrels respawning. Even a pouch on the alchemy bench and a strong box on the enchanting bench would do the trick.

Last idea, how about a fish hatchery in the lake?

This underwater den is a real gem! I’m looking forward to building it again!

Planters have not been set up for planting. I wanted feedback first on whether to pre-plant with something or do the plant-your-own thing. I take it you wanted the latter?

I'll take another look at the rugs. My first glance through the catalog left me not liking the colours available, and I was seriously considering no floor coverings at all (or moss!)

Two plaques is simple enough, and I'll put an alchemists satchel on one of the barrels. The smithy could use a chest for storing ingots, too.

The space to the left of the alchemy table is begging for something to go there, and that's probably where the Hist shrine will go when I decide what one looks like.

You most likely haven't been in and out of the wet door much, but there are two river fish spawn points there that seem to produce new fish on each visit. A hatchery would be redundant. I was getting six fish each time I went out the underwater door.

Version 0.3

I've soiled the planters, so you can plant stuff now.

Doubled the plaque, and moved the weapon racks over a bit to the blank area.

Added an alchemist's satchel as storage in the lab, which enables with the barrel it's on.

The Hist shrine is a simple log that appears at Stage 50 (when you first use the workbench). It gives the same blessing as Nocturnal's - Fortify Sneak. Its RefID is xx01295E if you've already passed the stage where it enables, and want to try it.

I moved the collision boxes out a bit from the bookshelves in case they were the cause of the issue. Now I expect books will fall off the shelves down the gap.

No change to the rugs yet. I may have to make custom ones.

Apart from the Hist log, the other changes should update an existing game.

Awesome, got it. Thank you!

I spit tea at “I’ve soiled the planters.” I won’t share that mental image!

No need to! I had the same thought too!

Jensa built 0.3 from scratch, and I love the additions. I want to do it over in the morning to check a couple of things in the forge room. The enchanting room turned out great! It’s hard to pick a favorite room. I’m also very fond of the kitchen.

Somehow I missed the Hist shrine (d'oh!), so I’ll look for it tomorrow.

Now that you pointed it out I’ve seen a bunch of little fish right outside the wet door, plus of course the slaughterfish welcoming committee.

The bookshelves worked much better when I put the smaller sized books on them. Nothing fell off anywhere. The way I get big books on that style shelf is to make the whole shelf bigger, hand-place the first set, and then copy for the rest of the shelves. What a pain. Last thing I’ll do is have Jensa Fus the bookshelves.

I’m starting to see Dar-Ma making the trek from Cyrodiil so she can live in Ilinalta Den. This is a marvelous dwelling! Thank you for sharing it!

Fixed a few things, and it's looking better.

Version 0.4

Dar-Ma’s 0.4 den came together perfectly. It’s beautiful! Dar-Ma had not built any other house yet and still had no trouble buying lumber. I did the surface and container respawn test and found only one naughty ectoplasm. Dar-Ma offers a reminder about putting storage in the forge and enchanting rooms. She is anxious to start her game and build Ilinalta Den for real!

The Hist shrine is a great touch! Thank you for this, ghastley!

Should I try to move a family in yet?

The ectoplasm has a habit of falling through the shelf, so it probably did that and bounced back up on the cell reset.

I've added a couple of strongboxes on the Enchanter for soul gems, and a chest on a table in the same room.

I squeezed another chest into the forge area by moving the grindstone over a little.

So then I updated the cheat sheet with a list of what you have to do to add a new item, as that's a common task.

Note that having updated properties on the building quest for the new chests means that you need to start a new character to test the changes. The property arrays are baked into a save. But you asked for them, so ...

I should have an 0.5 later today.

That is a huge relief! I took a peek in the CK because that helps me learn, and I could see no reason whatsoever that the ectoplasm should respawn while everything else did not. My feeble confidence was shattered. Whew!

I’ll do 0.5 with a fresh Dar-Ma save copied over from her ‘real’ profile. Poor kid is still in Riverwood in her game.

I'm not sure how it happened, but the ectoplasm was sitting below the shelf, so it would fall if you moved anything near it. I pulled it back up to the surface, so it should stay put now.

I'll re-roll Spreads-her-Thighs and have her run through before I package 0.5. I want to make sure everything opens in the right direction. I've had a few chests facing backwards before now.

BWAAHAA!!!! Great name !!!!

Turns out I was missing a lot of the required markers for the HF Multi-kid setup. Most of that was because it needs outside things, and this home is not really set up for the kids to play outside. Especially if they're not Argonian and you haven't put in the "dry" door.

So Spreads gets rolled again! (It's all right, I think she enjoys it)

Edit: Spreads found another issue - wrong model for the sconces. The ones on the wall are fine, but you're shown a goat horn one when you make them.

Version 0.5

with all the known things fixed. I rotated a few chests this time, I think they're all good now.

Dar-Ma’s 0.5 den looks great! Thank you for the new storage. I missed the backwards chests and goat horn thing. I had to laugh, because when I went with Jensa to get stuff for her builds I made sure to grab all of her goat horns. D’oh!

I’ve had no problem with followers using the wet door. I’ll use My Home Is Your Home next to give NPCs schedules that will make them go outside and then back in on their own. I’m curious to see what they will do.

I suppose slaughterfish attacks won’t be a problem for the kids. Can kids even swim?


Oh, and nice solution for the chest and the root!