I've watched that, and right after I did, I felt a LITTLE better, but still extremely sad. I haven't watched the second part of it(I think there are two parts?)

The thing about the Indoctrination Theory is that it basically boils down to Shepard being hit by the beam, hallucinating the canon endings and then...nothing, really. There's no more closure or wrapping up of events than their was in the orginal ending, really, and just comes to the same problem via a slightly different route.

And I believe the offical Bioware line is that they're going to do more Mass Effect, but without Shepard. Casey Hudson stated in an interview that 'Commander Shepard's story ended at the end of Mass Effect 3' so that strikes me as pretty final.

They are doing another one, I think it's when the First Contact Wars started.

That's the current theory, yeah. Personally I'd like one following Wrex's career; that would be awesome.

Have you seen the animated movie paragon Lost? I cried. I'll admit it.

Oh, that's out? I haven't yet, no.

Freddie Prinze Jr. does the voice in the movie as well as the game for Vega.

Yeah, I saw the little teaser sample the makers released on Youtube; his voice alright. You'd hope it would be though, considering that he's the main character.

Ooh, ooh, one thing I remembered; Elizabeth, thinking of Mass Effect-related paerphanalia that makes you cry, have you read Blue Rose of Ilium? Because if you haven't, it's absolutely phenominal. It will also make you cry. Like a goddamn baby.

No, because I know what its about and I refuse to XD

Hah, fair enough. I remember my thought process when I was first reading it was something along the lines of 'don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, oh crap I'm crying.'

I read that interview too, but I think that was just Casey sticking up for his team in the wake of all the bad press surrounding the endings. When they revisit the subject once cooler heads have prevailed I believe that they are going to have a change of heart. Leaving Shepard's story the way it is now is unsatisfying no matter which ending you choose.

As for the Indoctrination Theory, I believe that it gives Bioware the perfect 'hook' for going back in and revisiting the story. I'm not saying that they should incorporate everything that the documentary suggests, but the idea that:

lifts the Mass Effect series from just another good space opera with a bad ending to a once-in-a-generation mind job.

Edit: Yes, I know this is all probably wishful thinking on my part, but I can hope... right?


Maybe we can play as a Turian!


Or maybe follow Grunt as he becomes leader of his own kraant (or whatever it's called).

My vote would be to follow another Spectre, like Jondum Bau or go back early into Tela Vasir's career.

Dude, face it; they're not incorporating the Indoctrination theory. I'm sorry, but they're not.

Besides, if you ask me, Shepard should die at the end of Mass Effect 3, whatever ending you pick. Because how the hell can you top saving the entire galaxy from the Reapers in any conceivable way? What the hell is Shepard going to do next? Retire, try and hold the galaxy together maybe is galactic president or somesuch, live his/her entire life knowing that whatever they do, they peaked at 35 and will never, ever be able to top that whatever they do. That's pretty goddamn depressing. Dying in a final, heroic sacrifice to bring an end to the Reapers and save the galaxy on the other hand; that's the perfect end for a hero. Shepard goes at his very peak, before anything can be tarnished, before the shine can wear off and before the inevitable lifetime of boredom and dissatisfaction can occur. Perfect.

The devs said from the start that they intended Shephard's story to be a trilogy. 3 parts.

They've said multiple times during the creation of the series however that they'd be open to a continuation within the same universe but stated that it wouldn't include Shephard.

My bet is that they'll move backwards in the ME timeline to before Shephard was even thought of if they continue in the same universe.

Either way, I'm looking forward to whatever they put out. Kind of. I put almost as much time in the ME trilogy as the last two ES games and love the universe.

I'm probably going to get whatever comes out as well, in the end. Considering the amount of backlash that ME3 provoked, I imagine Bioware are going pay a lot of attention to how they handle its development and so forth, so while the whole ME3 outcry may well have given the internet a new dead horse to flog for years to come (because after ten years, maybe we were running out of horse with The Phantom Menace) it might be a good kick up the backside that points Bioware in the right direction.

You can face it if you want to. Those endings are too bad for me to face without some form of blind, trusting optimism which I will adopt until Bioware disabuses me of it. And I never said that they would incorporate the Indoctrination Theory. I only said that they should.


Shepard doesn’t need to live to make the endings satisfying. Like you (and for the same reasons), I believe that it is better if he dies. Right now, he is a Kennedy. If he somehow lives he becomes a Clinton. The problem is, as it stands right now, the three ending choices are just flat-out bad (Synthesis? Really? ). Worse than that, they are a cop out. It is my hope (and, again, I must stress that it is a hope) that people as creative as the team over at Bioware have gotten the kick up the backside you mentioned.


The same thing was said about Master Chief.


The thing is that they almost have to move backwards in the timeline from here because Bioware has basically written themselves into a corner. 3’s endings make it difficult (to say the least) to move forward in the Mass Effect universe unless you create three almost completely different games to accommodate people based on the ending they chose.



I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I was only expressing optimism that a company with a track record of games that I enjoy would naturally want to go back and fix a mistake. I'm sorry you guys don't feel that way, but the fact that you don't doesn't invalidate the fact that I do.

Besides, I'm still holding out hope that Bioware will re-visit Jade Empire someday... so my optimism is pretty hard to kill!

Not to mention, Destri, if they went forward with the ME universe, they would pretty much only have Krogan.

Think about it!!!! The mass relays are destroyed, and who's gonna feed the army of Krogan? The Turians and quarians(assuming th player went with Quarian) would die due to their immune systems and dietary needs, the salarians are just...salarians, and the humans, volus, and asari would be food for the Krogan. Then they'd turn Earh into Tuchanka Part Two.

Destri: Halo is a bad example. Bungie had the series taken away from them and given to another studio for the creation of Halo 4. They didn't get a say in the series' future.

I doubt the same is going to happen with Bioware. I can see the next game set in the same universe but I hink it is time to admit that the ending of ME3 sucked (though it is slightly better with extended cut) and that Shephard is dead.

Awww come on now. Shepherd could kill rats for the Fighters Guild. Or fetch the mead for the Companions. Or maybe even get a ring from a well for the Mages Guild. There is still plenty left to do!

HAAA.

Edi, take us in. We've gotta land.

Got it Shephard. Putting us down near what appears to be a small settlement.

*Cue Elderscrolls theme song*

Mass Effect 4: Valenwood

-giggles like crazy-

How many people are going to make a new TES character and name them Shepard now?

-slowly raises hand-

She will be a pure biotic, too. XD

*Whistles innocently*

I just might...

I'll be different and make an Argonian named Garrus.

-girly squeal-

GOD IDEA!!!

I just about everyone likes Garrus. In Mass Effect my standard squad was Wrex and Garrus. ME2 it was Garrus and... whatever the Krogan's name was.

Grunt, lol.

Garrus is always with me, too. He's a staple party member.

I always went with Ashley and Kaiden in the first ME, which is why Virmire made me so angry. After Kaiden was gone Garrus replaced him strictly because of his skill set and not because I liked him.

In ME2 I went with Garrus and Legion. Garrus was written a lot better in the last two games and I actually enjoyed his company. Having a look into geth "culture" was awesome.

In ME3 I went with Garrus and the Marine who starts with you.

Garrus is my favorite because he's always got your back through the whole game but generally I like all of the characters for their unique petsonalities.

Vega starts with you on the 3rd one.

I always had Garrus in my group. ALWAYS. I loved the little quips he came up with, and felt that having a party member who had seen you through it all was important.

What an awful name. Yeah, he got replaced by Legion, but that was unfortunately a LONG way through the game.

Garrus was pretty awesome. If I play the 3rd one ever, I'll be getting him pronto.

He picked his own name, lol. He said is resonated with him.

Well, that could be why he got booted as soon as someone better came along. He was never as cool as Wrex was. That guy was almost as cool as Garrus. He had some really funny lines if I recall correctly. I miss ME1. Always gave Garrus the best sniper rifle, Wrex the best shotgun. Then modded both of them to shoot explosive rounds. BOOOM.

Snob. XD

I personally really liked Grunt; he was an interesting character and was useful in a fight, and when I found out that, in ME3 I had a massive 'atta boy!' moment for him. Plus his loyalty mission was a lot of fun, too.

Anybody played the new Reckoning DLC pack, by the way? You can play as a Krogan with a giant hammer. YOU CAN PLAY AS KROGAN THOR!!

I don't have that DLC yet. Now I want it lol

Anybody got the Omega or Citadel DLC's yet? I want to try them but Bioware thinks their DLC is worth too much money at launch these days.

I'd like to bring this topic back from the dead to explore the possible ramifications of the three bad endings before the new game is announced. Here's what I think happened after the end credits:

- You’re SHEPARD, but you’re clinically brain-dead lying in a bed at Huerta Memorial. Shooting the red pipe caused your body to be blown down to the control room, back across the chasm, and through the room of corpses to the beam which deposited you (still breathing, mind you) amidst the rubble of London. With the Mass Relays destroyed and much of Earth looking like Trafalgar Square, you were transported to Huerta Memorial, which was miraculously spared any real damage when the orbiting Citadel exploded.



- Your body has been transported to Huerta Memorial as above, but your consciousness now exists inside the Reaper Consensus (which you have renamed the ‘because I said so’). Here you are able to make decisions that influence Reaper behavior based on the fact that you grabbed two blue handlebars because TIM told you to. You are using your newfound power to make your Reaper puppets rebuild the mass relays because you want to finally stick it to the idiots on the Council (who all somehow survived) and take your shiny new Reapers on a long delayed full scale invasion of the Terminus Systems.



- Your body was completely vaporized due to the fact that you inexplicably decided to complete SAREN'S objective from the first Mass Effect! All that’s left of you is a single piece of chestplate with the N7 logo that was recovered from the rubble in London near the spot where you disappeared into the beam. Experts speculate that your armor was somehow separated from your body due to the molecular deconstruction that preceded your transport to the Citadel. With nothing left of you to bury, the remaining piece of armor is transported to the only section of the Citadel still standing... Huerta Memorial.



- EMILY WONG is reporting from outside Huerta Memorial where an angry half synthetic/half organic lynch mob have gathered to string you up for what they perceive to be crimes against organics. The Krogan have sent envoys to the Citadel to demand that your body be brought to Tuchanka to face trial for curing the genophage, then rendering the entire Krogan race sterile again by choosing Synthesis. URDNOT WREX has been quoted as saying that you’ll make a good amuse-bouche for KALROS, the Queen of all Thresher Maws. In fact, the only one happy about being spontaneously transformed into a cyborg is a Volus named NIFTU CAL.

- 184,563,297 lawsuits have been filed against you to date for everything from genocide to property damage to copyright infringement.

- Your ship and crew crash landed on a planet only 654 light years from Citadel space. Engineer GREG ADAMS surmises that fuel reserves will hold out just long enough for the Tantalus Drive Core to build momentum to reach 89% of light speed. The good news is that, since we all know that Sir Isaac Newton is the most fuel efficient son-of-a-you-know-what in space, the ship will continue to drift at that speed indefinitely without fuel. The bad news is that, with the mass relays destroyed, only Matriarch LIARA T’SONI would be alive when the Normandy finally returns to Citadel space... and that’s only if she somehow manages to avoid eating or drinking after the first eleven months. To combat this Adams, T’Soni, & TALI’ZORAH vas NORMANDY repurpose the escape pods to serve as rudimentary stasis pods based upon a prothean design provided by JAVIK.

- Because they were virtually wiped out in the initial Reaper attack, the Batarians never did actually send their committed ships into battle against the Reapers. They now find themselves in possession of the largest fleet in Citadel Space. In recognition of this, the other councillors name BALAK to take the seat vacated by DONNELL UDINA.

- Without the Geth to assist them in acclimatizing themselves to Rannoch, the Quarians suffer through a series of pandemics that all but wipe them off the galactic map. In a last ditch effort to save her species, ADMIRAL X’EN tries to recreate the Geth using second hand parts salvaged from the remnants of the Migrant fleet. The results are not aesthetically pleasing, but her ‘new Geth’ do attain self awareness... right before they break down because there are fewer Quarians to keep them repaired.

- DALATRASS LINRON is stripped of her title after footage of her in flagrante delicto with a Hanar named ZYMANDIS (soul name: Regards the Works of the Enkindlers in Despair) floods the extranet. Thanks to the testimony of a Spectre named JONDUM BAU, it comes to light that this Zymandis was actually an indoctrinated Reaper agent who almost caused the fall of Kahje. This revelation is a political WMD that vaporizes the entire Linron bloodline and opens the door for DALATRASS NARRA to be named the new leader of the Salarian Union. Former Dalatrass Linron retires to an undisclosed location and spends the rest of her life fleeing the Drell assassins that the Hanar send to exterminate her.

- Spurred on by his new wife, JENNA, CONRAD VERNER volunteers to work as a consultant on the Crucible project where he is re-aquainted with engineer GAVIN HOSSLE. Over coffee the two write out the mission statement for the corporation that will come to be known as Verssle Endeavours on an Alliance napkin. Verssle Endeavours becomes the leading light in harnessing the dark energy necessary to rebuild the Mass Relays. The napkin will later rest under secure glass, right next to Conrad Verner’s statue, in the Smithsonian Institute.

- As a result of her efforts leading the colonists of Zhu’s Hope against the Reapers, SHIALA is approached with commission offers by both the Asari Military and the Human Systems Alliance. She is also informed by the Citadel Council of her Spectre candidacy. In the end, she puts them all aside to begin her new life as an Asari Justicar.

I didn't play the second or third games, but I do recall something about traveling near the speed of light. The closer you get to it, the more time dilates. So that even though it might take 900 years to fly back to Earth, a much shorter time will pass onboard the ship itself. I am not a mathmagician, so I don't know all the calculations. But I do recall from Cosmos that you could travel around the Milky Way at the speed of light, and only be about 20 or 30 years older when you got back. Though thousands of years would have passed back home.

Also keep in mind too that while traveling through the vacuum of space will not slow the ship down once it has reached its maximum speed, the gravity wells it encounters along the way will. Passes with stars, planets, and planetoids will affect the ship's speed, and might slow it down, or speed it up. They could also send it flying off on a completely different trajectory, such as the vastness of intergalactic space.

This was actually meant as a joke for those of us who played through all three games only to get the final ending(s) we did. Most of these references will be lost on you if you didn't play through the games. Not being a mathmagician myself, I couldn't even begin to tell you how much effect on time dilation traveling at only 89% of light speed would have. I can only surmise that it might be significant.

I played both ME1 and ME2 but I finished them long before ME3 was released so when it happened, I didn't feel any hype about it anymore. Besides, I encountered that bug which wouldn't allow me to import my character from ME2 - although the bug was later fixed, I already moved on so I never finished the saga with my Dylan Shepard. I still don't know exactly what the endings are, though I read some negative critics about it.

My understanding is that the endings came in different colors. And that is all the difference is!

The endings were bad, to be sure… but they didn't ruin the trilogy for me like they did with so many others. 'Rosa, Lopov you should definitely play through to the end of the trilogy. I think people were so angry and outraged over the endings because the over-arching story up to that point was so good. You can't hate something that you're indifferent to.

I tried playing ME2, but I never got past the intro. Once I found out the game forces you to join the terrorist group from the first game, I gave up. I just won't do that. While they claimed to be about human superiority over aliens, all I ever saw them do was kill human servicepeople, like Admiral Kabuki. So it was rather plain to me that is what they were all about. From what I have read and watched on video about the other games, I was not far from the mark (don't want to spoil anything here).

Besides, I found the gameplay in ME1 to be rather poor. Well, until I played the intro to ME2. That made me appreciate the first game more! The only thing that kept me playing the first game at all was to see how the story turned out. But once I played through it once, and already knew that, and there is no reason to try it again. I was really very unimpressed with the series.

So I would rather spend my time playing games that interest me more, such as Wasteland 2 (which I am definitely going to try sometime). I bought Baldur's Gate II a while ago and still haven't even had time to start it either.