THIS thread is meant to give us an option to comment on several stories and authors in one single post! Maybe we read two or three stories and then we'd like to give some overall comment on all of them instead of posting in each one of the story-threads!

Mark this: It's optional! You can choose whether you like to post here or in the original thread!!!!

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My first general comment will be this:

There's a lot of good work in the fanfic-section at the time being, it might be because of the latest contest, but nevertheless it's a sheer joy to visit the section and read all the nice stories. You really are a bunch of goos serious writers and I hope you find it as fun to write as I find it to read...

Keep up the good work, all of you!

k - where are the short stories?

Umm.....the same board you posted in?
Seriously though, just take a look below this thread and all the stories are there. There's this one called "The Scroll, the Priest and the Angry Imperial". I can't remember the author, but I hear it's pretty cool.....

You're a dirty, dirty liar Redsrock!!!! You know good and well that's your story, otherwise you have short-term memory loss.

I wonder if he means the short stories for the contest guys....



Please only be joking by that comment. Like Redsrock was with his - hence the wink at the end of his post. I assume you are only joking though...

Well, just so I don't make anyone angry (I'm still not sure if I did or not), I'll comment on someone else's peice. Lord Veneficus' story is always good. He's doing a good job of balancing out dialogue and body-text, and he's getting a lot better at "showing", rather than "telling.

One very general comment- be aware of pacing. By that, I mean there is no need to rush the story. An installment does need to add something, but it doesn't always have to be "action". Sometimes, it is worthwhile to slow down and develop the character(s).

Comment to self: Man I need to get writing again!

Comment to writers: Damn, I got a reading ahead of me! Though I can't wait to delve into this stuff.

Here we go again, just came back from a short trip and found a lot of updates and new stories. I'm currently going trough them all, and I must say there's a lot of creativity among the ppl here. What I've read so far pleases me a lot and I'll try to comment in the threads later on.

Of course I was, it seemed a little too over the top to be serious.

And I've really got to start reading again. I commend Treydog for Blood on the Moon's elegance of comedy and plot.

I've got a general tip, something I noticed in some of the stories I read for the competition.

Be careful when using common every day expressions in your story. Many of the expressions we use are not logical at all to be in a world such as Nirn.

Some examples;
"bullmanure" (well the term was slightly different but I'm sure you catch my drift )
I don't believe I've once seen or heard about bulls being in Tamriel or anywhere else in Nirn.

"Not the ritz" when speaking about lavish accommodations. I'm sure the person was referring to a fancy hotel chain, but I don't believe a hotel like the Ritz-carlton orso could be found in Tamriel

etc.

I think it's a very good point to be careful of using real-world slang and metaphors that don't make sense in the context of the ES world.

Though actually there were plenty of cows in Daggerfall, so maybe that particular expression isn't too out of context...

Thanks, man. I shall return the favor. Your stories are very interesting and I see everything you say.

Thanks, bud, I meant everything I said.

After a particularly scary trip through a dungeon in Daggerfall where I had barely escaped with my life, I returned to my city and found it was covered in a morning mist. As I made my way to the temple to get the disease from me cured (diseases in Daggerfall could actually kill you if they weren't cured quickly, not like the silly diseases of Oblivion that just cause a nuisance) I passed a house with a cow in its garden. When the cow said 'moo' I physically felt relieved in the real world behind my computer, for this was proof I was back in civilization and there wouldn't be some vampire jumping out to get me.

I will never forget cows in Daggerfall. Since that event every time I saw one and especially heard one I remember feeling safe. Cities in Morowind and Oblivion are noisy, in Daggerfall the cities are silent and all you hear (all I remember hearing) is the moo, neigh, oink, woof, and meow of the static cows, horses, pigs, doggies, and cats sprinkled throughout the city.

Incidentally, the ingredient beef is present in the Oblivion game, and this has to come from a cow, and if there's cows, there's got to be bulls somewhere... I know I'm a city boy, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I thought it worked... Beef comes from cows, right? And you need a bull to impregnate a cow, right?

Plus, you could potentially claim a Minotaur as a bull of some type. Perhaps that's the manure they are speaking of

Okay this is actually a very difficult topic. There are clear-cut cultural references of an obvious kind that are simply out of place, like saying "Maervin's plans for the new castle in Chorrol would put the Taj Mahal to shame" and there are anachronisms that are discontinuous with TES, like saying "Kud-Ei sighed as she threw the rag into the sink 'Varon Vamori!' she shouted. 'Did you use all the hot water again?'" and there are things that are just wrong, like referring to "Tuesday" or "November".

But we know very little of the lingo of this world. Certainly I can't imagine that with all the races, all the classes, all the factions, the nobility, the daedra worshippers, the academia, the legion, the merchants, the pirates, the young, the old, the rich, the poor, the beggars... I would expect in such a setting the language to be bursting with colourful phrases. Instead it seems like everyone says "by the nine!". This is ridiculous!

In Daggerfall you had streetwise, etiquette, orcish, harpy, and mercantile, and in general there was a lot more text. In Oblivion all that is left is "speechcraft" and "mercantile". This limits the authors of any fan-fiction (and I would say that all the words in the fan fiction competition would easily be more than the number of words used in the actual game) in their attempts to produce color.

I am not one of the judges of the competition, but I am conscious of the barren lexicon of colorful in-game expressions from which the authors have to paint a picture for us of any of the many in-game factions or social groups. And I would certainly advocate a leniency and freedom for the authors to create color for us to compensate for the lack thereof in the game.

Interesting points there. However for me all of those can be answered with one word. Consistency. In fiction of any kind, but especially those which require world building, you have to remain consistent to the world and to the rest of your story. We've all read stories where the charaters are talking like courtier's one minute, and the next like L.A. valley girls.
"My lady, I cannot lie to you any more." She curtsied in front of me, the long silk evening gown getting caught under her feet. She'd dressed early, the banquet wasn't till tonight. "It was I who spoke to the Count in the gardens."
"I am like, totally tripping out here man." I pulled my Ray Bans off angrily, and reached for the bottle of Jacks on the table, filling a glass almost to the top before adding a little splash of Coca Cola ™, "I don't get you girlfriend, you used to be solid!"

Jokey example, but you get my point. We haven't set rules for this, but the way I'm judging is to look for consistency. If something jumps out at me as a glaring inconsistency, it's a bad thing. It pulls me out of the flow of the story and whatever momentum has been built up is lost, and after a prolongued bout of eye rolling, when I get back to the story it's hard to capture the emotional state I had been in. From that point of view alone it gets the thumbs down. It purely depends on how the language fits with the rest of what's written.

Ok, ok. I'll admit, I haven't played Daggerfall so I didn't know that.

I'll rephrase my advice, I'd say it's important before letting a character use something, that you look and see if the phrase would be logical for them. For instance, a Dunmer, who's never in his life set foot outside of Morrowind, hardly seems logical when using a word like bull manure.




Good reasoning, though I don't entirely agree.

While I realize Oblivion hasn't given us much in terms of expressions and terms and such, I believe any author whose imagination is rich enough to create a great story like the ones I've read, both for the competition and otherwise, would be creative enough to come up with their own lingo rather then simply copying what we use in every day. I can think of an easy way even; simply think of the things we'd use, and transport those to things someone in Tamriel would use, making use of animals, or things similar to our world.

Examples for Morrowind;
bull manure could be Guar Droppings
By god could be by azura
Son of a b.... could be Son of a mudcrab/dog/guar/cliffracer/(insert animal)
And that's not counting things that were given to us like N'wah, Fetcher etc which all seem similar to lingo we might use in real life. Well some of us anyway

Same for Cyrodiil;
Guar droppings could be horse manure
By god, could be By Talos
etc.

I guess that's all I'm saying, a little creativity and ingenuity rather then simply copying something

Well this thread is a very good idea after all. Can I just say that I'm unable to post replies on fanfics being posted at the minute due to judging responsibilities. As soon as I've finished though, I will be back to posting responses. I just didn't want anyone thinking I'd abandoned them or their stories

Could it be a Bull guar, or a Bull Alit or Bull Elephant ... name that large and agressive meat animal with the generic term Bull used for the male?

Like you're not going to say that's a load of Bull Alit are you?

I thought this thread was created for people wanting to comment on more than one story at a time?

It is, and isnt. Its when discussions take on new life, and clutter the writers stories with comments non-story related, as well.

Arlight, fair enough.

Well, personally I've only heard of the term bull in terms of the male cows, not to indicate certain other types of male animals.



True, but I think Treydog inspired us (as usual) when he pointed out the positives for being able to give pointers about things we've seen in multiple stories, makes it beside from a thread for easy comments, also a possible library of information

Yeah, you're right. I was just getting tired of all the 'bull' talk.

Oh aye....treydog is the great inspirer for all of us....that is just so true!

My purpose originally with this thread was to comment in general on stories, when you just do not have the opportunity to visit every individual thread and comment on the story...then you may come here and tell what you wanna tell....in one post!

But what trey said is making this thread even more useful!

What ARE you on about? What did Trey say? I'm going mad looking all over this thread up and down looking for his comment, hoping to be inspired as you and Alex have, but all I find is his post with the general comment about pacing the stories.

Morrowind had a Bull Netch and a Betty Netch! And Oblivion has beef! Long live the bulls of TES!

Hi, Redsrock!

Did you know, that the second Emperor of Cyrodiil was Belharza, the Man-Bull? Did you ever wonder at the marvels of the Imperial City, what with their extensive sewers and nary a toilet? Did it ever give you pause, how the exrements of the second Emperor were taken care of?

Do I know you?

I have read an Argonian using Hist P*** as a swear (That one book series about Black Marsh, the narrator was the same guy in Dance In the Fire or whatever).

That's actually what we're speaking about, that suggestion about pacing. (subtle no? )



Incidentally, at the bottom of each post you'll find a button called "multi" if you want to respond to several posts at once, simply check all those "multi" buttons for all the posts you want to respond to, and then press "add reply" It will include all the quoted posts in a single post so you won't need to double post.


Thanks in advance,

Alex

Hi, Alex! Thanks for the tip. At first I didn't know what you were talking about. I am using the "space ship wreck" skin and it seems this skin doesn't have a multi button? The "space ship wreck" skin has "quote" and "reply" buttons in the bottom right-hand corner; the "tower" skin has a "multi" and a "quote" button. I'll just use the "tower" skin, np...

Right, well on the space ship wreck the "quote" button accomplishes the same thing, it's just that I tend to use the tower and thus don't know if the other skin has different has other terms.

But thank you, and now to get back on topic

Agreed. I think we've exhausted the fascinating potential of this particular subject now. Can we move on please?

This post is dedicated to redsrock!

one of the most talented writers here....

You write in a professional style, you are so creative and has a big potential, just look at your production! It's huge....and quality throughout!

Way to go....

Wow, thank you so much, Minque. That's awesome especially because it's coming from a great writer yourself.

I credit the other writers here for my progression as a writer. Treydog, yourself, Minque. Also Lord Revan, MetalMallet, the list keeps going on and on. Also BSD, though doesn't write, gives me EXCELLENT advice all the time. I've learned from all of you, and I wouldn't be where I am right now if it wasn't for you guys. (and girls)

More of a "general comment" than specific.... I just wanted to say how pleased I am to see the talented new writers who have joined us. And I am also happy to see many of our "old hands" continuing to provide excellent work. The only down side for me is that I do not have as much time as I would like to read and enjoy- which means I scan rather than reading closely. And that means I am unable to comment as frequently as I would prefer. I hope every writer here knows that I admire your work and appreciate your willingness to share it with us.

Yeah, that's a big problem for me as well, Treydog. during the summer hopefully I'll be able to catch up on some fics...

Agreed mates, its been pretty difficult to keep up with the fan fiction lately, especially since there's just so much more content than there used to be. Its really good to see so many new writers taking an interest in ES fan fiction.

Yea, great to see that. Kinda makes me feel a bit guilty for not getting my own writing in though. Ahh... but life is busy. It's hard to write now when I don't have seven hours of nothing to do like I used to have at my old job.

Ohwell, I'll figure something out I guess.

Yeah, can I just say to everyone SLOW DOWN. Re-read your work. Remember, good writing is re-writing. You need to give yourself time to discover a character, a person you've created. As a writer, you have a responsibility to the characters you've brought to life to give them interesting lives. If you take that responsibility seriously, your characters will do great things and say great things and you will have great stories.

Can I also ask all the reviewers to BE HONEST. I understand some of the older people here see some of the younger people making posts (some really young) and naturally there's a reaction to be supportive and encouraging. But give some honest feedback so people can improve.

That's good advice per se!

Now then, I hope you're not implicating that the "oldies" are dishonest? Because that is not true! If there is any serious mistakes they are pointed out I can assure you!

But...as you said...many writers are younger, it's maybe their first attempt of writing something, so why not give them a little support? Why not be encouraging instead of nitpicking their work? In my opinion the most important thing is that they're actually writing!!! Then why be harsh? This is supposed to be a nice place where everyone gets his/her chance of sharing their efforts!

Okay minque! I agree with what you are saying. And no, I wasn't insinuating (or trying to insinuate) that there are people here who are DIShonest merely that they might try being MORE honest

I would like to point out though (echoing treydog's earlier comments) that I see a lot of talent and potential here, present on this forum.

We can look at this talent and potential and be encouraging, certainly I agree with that. But I also sense Chorrol could go to another (higher) level by going beyond encouragement and providing more serious coaching. Potential without coaching remains potential.

Perhaps the timing of my comment makes it unfair. I realise that through the recent fan fiction contest, the forum has been flooded with interest, more stories to read than would normally be the case and it might not be possible to comment on everything. But I also think the competition was a very good thing for this forum since it attracted this interest.

Perhaps the question is "what's next"? Now that we have this momentum and added interest from the competition (which I think could easily be organised on an annual or semi-annual basis) what do we do with it? Do we (we/the organisers/whatever) let it for what it is? I know I'm new around here, but of the stories I've read there are too many good ones I sense to just let Chorrol peeter into a "submit something if you want to"/"sombody might reply if they want to, eventually" with no strings attached.

I think one of the reasons this competition has been so successful is the interest and sponsership from Bethsoft's own.

At the same time, if you look at the forum you will see that Chorrol has always attracted writers more than RPers and so the rate of submission will always be slower.

But what interests me is that the general quality of writing here is quite high - so it might well be worthwhile repeating this competition - because it has inspired people.

Yup...it inspired me to continue my writing anyway...a fact that will soon be proven.

The thing I see is that when younger or newer writers post, they don't get as much feedback. If we could just give them comments and good suggestions, they would continue writing and provide us with great stories to read. Thus, making everyone happy.

It's not just newer writers, V. (And I know where you're going with that anyway). I don't get a whole lot of feedback either and I've been here for a good while. You just have to keep writing and don't worry about it. Besides, you shouldn't worry about getting feedback, because that shouldn't be the sole purpose of writing, you know? At least that's my opinion.

True, very true. Write for yourself, and the pleasure it gives you - not for praise from others. Every writer likes feedback however, but what you'll find with most forums is the better the feedback (the more detail on how you could improve for example) the longer it takes to get it. I've commented on your stories before Lord V, and I will again. I've continued to read your work - just like I've continued to read Red's work - and when I have both time and something new to say then I will. I could greet each update with a "great, well done!" and leave it with that, but I've never really been that type of poster. Which is why my post count at every forum I belong to is still so low I just like to have something really helpful to add, rather than just a generic response.