The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

I finally got the chance to play Oblivion for the first time a few days ago and I just came up with the idea to get other people's opinions on this game...I played Oblivion for several hours, noting things that I liked and didn't like about it in my head.

I loved the new magic, combat, and stealth systems that Bethesda redesigned so well. The first thing that I found to be annoying was the bounty system, no warning is given to the player that he has a bounty until the guards have already caught you but that is a relatively small problem when compared with all that is good in this game.

Radiant AI was great...at first glance. Gameplay really seemed alive with the living, moving world that was created around me and I was amazed with it.

After a while though I noticed things that weren't so intelligent. Some of RAI's major flaws were with recognition of loved ones, friends, and reactions to events. Bethsoft boasted that the character's conversations would be lifelike and realistic when in reality they often are not. Sometimes when you stand near an NPC he will continuously repeat the same line over and over, which gets old fast.

Husbands and wives speak to eachother as if they were talking to a complete stranger and occasionally whenever an NPC tells another NPC about a bad even occurring, they seem unstirred or even happy about it...

Example of bad RAI conversations in the works:

Husband-"Kvatch has been attacked by the Deadra!"

Wife-"That is good to hear..."

Husband-"Indeed...it has been nice speaking with you...farewell."

Wife-"Farewell."

Another thing that I found to subtract from gameplay was the frequency of ruins, caves, and other points of interest that fill the land. As I was traveling through those beautiful woods I talked about earlier I ran into countless ruins and caves, filled with useless junk that made going into the places virtually useless.

The frequency of the caves and ruins is so great that whenever a player runs into one of the ruins they don't really feel a sense of accomplishment because they know what junk is inside and that nearly all of the ruins have similar layouts.

Things aren't sitting around on tables or scattered through the ruin to pick up freely as they were in Morrowind(I really liked that feature of morrowind), they are all locked up tight, making it pointless for anyone without a lockpick or spell to enter the ruins.

Oblivion seemed to be alot less diverse than Morrowind as well, all of the castles, ruins, and caves looked somewhat alike and there were alot less factions to join.

The glitches seemed to be rather frequent as well, not allowing me to drop some of the quest items after I got them and finished the quests involving them and sometimes the item doesn't register as being in your inventory when you're speaking with an NPC about the quest. Another glitch that I encountered was when allies were attacking something, they sometimes hit eachother and turned on one another without explanation...this actually happened several times while I played leading me to believe that it isn't a rare occurrence.

There were several good things about Oblivion but there were also lots of problems that kept me from really getting into it like I did Morrowind. In the end I think that Bethsoft removed too many of the fantasy elements and mainstreamed the game a bit too much.


So without any further discussion I'll give you my thoughts on Oblivion.

Good:
1.Great new combat, steal, and magic systems really add to immersion and keep the player interested.
2.Graphics are simply amazing, though they tend to get a bit simple at far off distances, they're still good.
3.The voice acting was well done with the important and quest characters but the other NPC characters had some fairly amateur sounding actors.
4.Fast travel speeds up gameplay so that you're not spending hours getting to your destination.
5.The quest compass keeps you from getting lost in the massive environment around you.

Bad:
1.Various and somewhat frequent glitches.
2.Repetetive and sometimes bad voice acting with some characters
3.Stiff character movements with animals and NPCs alike.
4.Horrible third person perspective.(In my opinion at least.)
5.Unfortunately the compass is always there, telling you where to go and keeping you from really exploring and doing your own thing without thought to the storyline.

Ugly:
1.RAI not too radiant after all...somewhat dull NPC behavior outside of quests.
2.No NPC recognition of relationships.
3.Poorly done conversations between NPCs.
4.Random and unexpected NPC behavior like attacking others for no apparent reason.

There is my view on this game, for me the problems distracted alot from the gameplay but overall I would say that it was pretty good despite the glitches and problems it had.

So was I disappointed? Yeah I guess I was...it just didn't have anything that was new or different by way of creatures and stuff to discover. It really seemed like too many of the unique things in the elderscrolls universe had been removed for me to get dragged into it like I did Morrowind but hey, that's just me...

I'd like to know what you think as well.

My biggest thing with oblivion is the lack of depth. In morrowind, the characters had tons of conversation options, and while you had to read them, a lot of the characters had a distinct personality. In oblivion, each character has one or two lines on average, and even some of the quest characters feel stale. It's also frustrating to find that after all that hype of RAI, NPC's are as unreactive with their environments as noble gases.

Also the fast travel system makes the world feel so small, when in fact it isn't.

But other than that, it's a pretty good game...

Well I really had to vote the hats off option. I was really waiting for the game for a while and I really couldn't wait to play it. I agree with many things as far as flaws are concerned and I definately agree with the good points but I have found in visiting a great number of forums to see people's opinions (And im telling you I quickly regreted doing so...most other forums are rabid with flames and constant bashing so it is good to be here and here only.) I may be the only person with this opinion.....but I also could be wrong.

-The game gave me exactly what I wanted in the game. A large number of hours worth playtime and loving every single minute.
-A new world, new items and updated graphics.
-A chance to enter a fresh new TES province.
-More fun then I could have hoped for.

I must say that Morrowind was way bigger as far as depth and The scenery was so....unique; but I do know that I will be investing sooooooooo many more hours in this game because I didn't get too caught up in the hype.

Those who get far too pulled in by hype suffer great let downs... This for me was an amazing game because I didn't expect it to change my life... too many people did unfortunately but that is beside the point.

Overall I give the game a solid 9/10 and it deserves it.

Here, I'll say what I liked an didn't

There were like 4 dungeon types, fort, cave, gate and ruin, and that's it. Each type used the exact same texture and was filled with the exact same group of foes. They boasted 200 dungeons, but really, aside from some cool little tricky traps in the aleyid ruins, there are four dungeons, done over and over again. I mean, they weren't so bad, I was just disappointed from what I thought it'd be like.

Now then, the RAI was not so bad on allies, it's enemies that pissed me off. They don't do anything different from morrowind, except for the very rare chance they might flee or grab a weapon. I was hoping wolves would stalk me, and trolls would call their frinds over before attacking, and will-o-wisps would lead me off the road instead of just come for me. I was disappointed.

Those are my complaints.

I had to vote hats off' as well as I'm really loving the game, but I agree on previously mentioned issues like too many points of interests and repetetive textures/dungeon design. The world felt a lot bigger and more mysterious and unique in Morrowind.

Regarding the RAI, I just saw the 6 trailers for Oblivion yesterday, the ones that were released some months ago. In one of those trailers, the RAI seemed much more intelligent and well done than I've seen in the game.

For example, that lady who runs the book store in Chorrol invited the player up to her room after closing hours (after being sweet talked), where she did lots of more or less intelligent things:

- Practiced archery, and when she didn't perform very well she took a potion of some sort and got much better.

- She fed her dog by putting some meat down on the floor, and the dog ate it and got lots of energy

- She went to sleep, but when the dog started barking she got up and cast a paralyze spell on it! When it continued barking after it recovered, she scared it away with a fire damage spell.

I'd love to see stuff like that in Oblivion. Are these things still in the game, or was it something Bethesda scripted for promotional purposes?

i think its a great...i know it has a few problems, but wot gamee doesnt!! i was a big fan off morrowind twas amazing game...and they has just taken that a made it look good! it may not draw as many ppl in as morrowind did..all i know is, is that its the 1st game in about 3yrs that has kept me playing..it has been the only game i have played for the last month or more...how many games can you say that too.... eh?

Time playing OB (between wife and I): 300+ hours.
Time in any other xbox 360 game: 20-60 (60 being the most we've played any other game).

It has flaws, but is still the best 360 game out there. I'd still say it's highs are higher and lows are lower than Morrowind, but I'd rank them as 1 and 1A (take your pick of order) for all-time games on console.

''It was alright but it didn't really draw me in...''
That's it.While Morrowind had something special.
As foxo said,lack of conversation options is really disturbing.

The game is how would i put it...''Vanilla''.

It's quite obvius it's a lot dumbed down comparing to Morrowind in every posible way.MQ really disapointed me,because i was hoping for some unexpectable twist,and all that i got....well,this isn't the spoiler section.
Graphics really rocks,but that's not something i really value in the game.Sure it's nice to have those pretty woods,but gameplay comes first.
It was already said that caves,forts are all the same,even the same texture in the Ayelid ruins gets really boring.Lack of weapons such as Katanas,Wakizashi's,throwing weapons,and crossbows is also disturbing (don't give me M'Aiq's quote on this!).
Then:You remember how hard it was to get a Daedric Armor in Morrowind?Well,in Oblivion every fool has it.So much for rare.

The worst disapointment is RAI.
I remember the topic on the official forum(before Oblivion was released):
''What will make Oblivion special?''
You know what i said? RAI.There was one guy who said ''You people expect too much.RAI will be dumb.''Offcurse he got flamed,but guess who's laughing now.He was right.RAI system is a complete failure.They did good marketing with that ''dog flaming'' video,which turned out to be BS.I never seen an NPC throwing fireballs at their pets!
Sometimes they don't get to sleep at all (i remember a DB quest where muy target never sleeps),or they sleep in their armor
Their sentences don't make sence,and all they talk about is something that player can use.Like ''Look,a hint!''.They should be talking weather,clothing,food,whatever.....Something unrelated for the player.Even when you throw something at them,they just stand there and look at you

Havoc:Rocks in battle,but sucks otherwise.Decorating a house,draging bodyes,Or just simply placing something is so anoying and hard!I like to be challenged in battle,but this is something that is unworthy of my time.
Also just by walking you can make all the objects in the room shake.Try Gilded Geurafe in Imperial City.Bah.

Skill system:Nice,so we have perks.Well,i'm not quite happy with them.''A master of Heavy Armor will not be encoumbered while wearing it.''How the hell does that make sence?It doesn't.
Lack of skills such as Axe,Short Blade,Medium Armor,Enchantment is desturbing too.I like the MW skill system better.You could screw up in Morroiwnd,but you can hardly screw up your character in Oblivion.How suitable for any noob.
Most weird thing i saw is that your fatigue REGENERATES while runing.I mean that's just stupid.If i run a maraton,i sould be exousted,not regenerated!

Lack of Guilds.I'm a master of all guilds with my first char.I mean Morrowind had a lot of choice,while Oblivion is very limited.

I'm pretty sure i forgot a lot more,but this is quite enough.Right now i've installed some mods that balance the game.I hope they're good!





Still with all the complains i listed i played the game for 160 Hours.So i still think it's a good game,but definatly a degradation of Morrowind.Guess that mainstrem audience got what they wanted.The older players suffer.
Good we have the strong modding community,otherwise i would give up on this game a lot sooner.....

I voted are you insane. I know I shouldnt but although I recognise the problems you listed and agree totally with your opinions on them, they still dont effect me very much. The NPC dialogue is one big one I agree with you on. While I dont necessarily think the voice acting is bad, the topic range, interaction with loved ones, and replying system is terrible.

Although I sit there a hear a conversation between man and wife sometimes and they sound like they barely know eachother, it dissapoints me for about 10 seconds. Then Im just back to playing. Another thing anout NPC's randomly fighting eachother. I recently posted about an incident where an important MQ guy and alot of soldiers were waiting for me outside an Oblivion gate.

When I finally get outside of the gate I find them brawling with eachother. So I obviously had to reload. After shouting a few profanities I had forgot the incident once my game reloaded.

Maybe Oblivion doesnt deliver everything it said it would in the way I wanted it to. But it delivers a way where I forget about its problems 10 seconds after I find them. Its certainly my favourite game, but suffers slightly from what Fable did. Im setting the standard of games too high. I shouldnt build up a game so much with my own imagination.

I will definately agree that, while more lifelike than Morrowind, radiant AI certainly didnt par up to what I was thinking it would do.

RAI isn't about to pass the Turing test, but then I never expected it would. Of course it's nowhere near real life. I think many people had unreasonable expectations, albeit fueled by the Beth propaganda machine.

Compared to 'AI' from any other game, I see it as a significant step forward. I've found many actions of NPCs in the game add to my enjoyment of the game. One recently occurred when I was in full chameleon mode in the middle of Skingrad pelting everyone with arrows. I downed a civilian, and a guard kneels down, looks for a pulse, and mutters, "She's dead. DEAD!" and then runs off in terror (okay, the terror part was my role-playing but still). That would NEVER have happened in MW or any other game.

Quoted For Thruth!
I mean when you see that video about RAI you think:Revolutionary!
The woman sucks at marksmanship,drinks the potion,and voila she scores.
Then Thunder the Dog part.''Mommy has to read!''and then she flames the dog.That looked promising.
However it's not in the game.

Showing something in the video that isn't in the game and promising a lot and doing nothing.....well,i don''t know how would you call it,but i call it a big disgrace.

They did state that things like that wouldn't really happen, that was just a demo to show what was capable, she was told what to do but no scripting was involved.

Now saying that things like that won't happen was propaganda, I was expecting the AI to act sensibly and gaurds wouldn't get in fights with themselves and a 1/4 of the town.

For what you just said Hypno I now respect your opinions more. If there is an opinion that I entirely agree with it is Hypno's. Well put man! I chose "It was alright but it didn't really draw me in" as well.

I will put it all in a few short terms.

Root of the problem: hype

Bethesda hyped up the game too much, praising it to be brilliant and better than sliced bread. Well, alot of people believed it...and got dissapointed. I as well like to look back at Oblivion videos and see some thing and say "this isn't in the game!" or things like that. To be honest I think they dumbed down the game too much and to quote some guy from the official forums: I also think Cyrodiil was too generic. Morrowind was more unique and I actually liked visiting the many different towns. Ald Ruhn with its organic style, Sadrith Mora with its many mushrooms and Balmora, nestled on the banks of the Odai river. Oblivion is too damn generic, I can't say anything about the towns, except Bravil. I really liked that place because it was a compassionate place.

Stargelman: Language, Mr. Griff!

Hmmm ... so has anyone tried to script anything like the lady flaming her dog, taking a potion to increase her archery skill, etc. using TESCS? Maybe the capability is there for us to script it if we want it to happen.
That's the only thing I can think of about why they would show it but say things like this won't automatically happen in the game.

I voted it was a good game. The hype was really too much, and there was definately some setbacks from Morrowind.

I pretty much agree with everyone so far, so I wont rave about caves or RAI, but one other thing I didnt really like....

the fast travel...

In Morrowind, between Mark, Recall, the interventions, Silt Strider, boat, mages guild and the Propylon indexes, you could get anywhere in 5 minutes... Especially with the boots of blinding speed.

But even with all those things, it still felt like you TRAVELED there!! In Oblivion, you dont travel anywhere. You make a 1-2 hour investment of time, stealing a black horse, and riding it around discovering everything. Just discovering. Ignore enemies, just ride up close enough to "discover" it and you automatically get the name and location and can instantly get there whenever....

WEAK!!

Even on a black horse, have you ridden on the Gold Road out of Anvil, head south past Bruma and down to Layawiin? That trip takes FOREVER!! and you may even be stopped by "highwayman" which is neat!! I love that you will also encounter Black Couriers or Guards as well. I loved that the RAI would have people once a month be found TRAVELING TO THE NEXT TOWN TO VISIT THEIR SISTER!! Crazy!! I didnt expect them to act like "people" so I wasnt too disapointed in the RAI, but the fast travel is annoying... I almost wish there was a mod that shut it off and added mark and recall with up to maybe, 3 total marks or something (to make up for the interventions...)

I also liked the church factions, and the semi-opposed Tribunal and Temple of the Nine...

So while graphics were better (yay...) and gameplay of stealth, combat, magick was MUCH better, there is a lot of simple stuff that could have left over from MW...

Since I only bought TESIV to occupy me while deployed in Iraq for several months.... it IS serving its purpose, and I love it.....

Cadaver

It seems like all the highwaymen and bandits attack your horse right away. My horses ran away but then there was one who started stomping the mashed potatoes out of the outlaws. I loved that horse.

But yeh, I tend to just do the fast travel more often now to get there sooner.

Hmm i enjoyed oblivion alot for bout 2 weeks. The graphics are stunning, i like the main quest, beautiful world, free to explore...
but then, it gets boring fast. After completing side quests and maybe guilds, all the other quest except for a few seem useless and not motivating. There is still no interaction with npcs, houses, horses,... are not necessary, money is not a question any more after some hours of gameplay, once you found a really good set of equipment there is absolutely no need to search for more (no finding, no searching, no "success" of an awesome treassure found etc.).
You were also right about everything looking quite the same. The same towers, same ayleid ruins, the same mines and caves, with pretty much the same enemies.
The game isn't as complex as they promised imo, which is a big drawback.

After all, i enjoyed the game as i said, but i had to vote for "disappointed".

HAHA!So they DID state such a thing? When was that?
Well,that anouncment surely wasn't that widely announced as their ''Revolutionary RAI''.I bet a lot of people did expect to see at least similar things in the game,if not that specific moment.I mean they DID have 4 years
Why showing things that aren't there?
Simply:To draw attention.
Offer something good,give something bad.
Losers.

Well thank you!

That isn't a censored word?


So now what?lLet the modders do it?
''We will provide a dumb version,let the modders do all the work!''
If that is the case,Bethesda is a group of very irresponsible programmers.
Although ,that isn't far away from the thruth.

So many people are being really harsh on Oblivion. I liked many parts and the one's I didnt I could let slide. There are many complaints, as I have already said I agree with, but I dont know why many give it such a negative reaction.

The one part I would actually say I am disappointed about it the lack of ways to show your character other than combat. An example would be a mages guild quest where someone will say "we need to find out more about this, go see whatshisname". You do and from there its just finding one person to the next, until you find out what you need to and feel you accomplished nothing.

I would prefer a "We need to find out this, go see what you can dig up". Sure thats pretty vague and some people wouldnt have a clue where to begin, but at least if you could finish it without the NPC directing you every step of the way, you would feel more like you made a difference.

I felt the same way about Telvanni and the mages guild in Morrowind. You werent a powerful wizard who devotes some of his time to his own studies and experiments. You were an errand boy who spend all his time running round doing pathetic tasks for others and never doing research for yourself.

I see this often throughout most rpg's and I saw it when I was playing through Oblivion (not just the mages guild). Most other problems werent that big, or were big but I could let them slip. My point overall is I wanted a role playing game where the role play outside of the combat was a little more involving.

They did to a lot for 4 years, I don't know how long MW took but it was 6 years inbetween Daggerfall and MW, they did work on Battlespire and Redgaurd inbetween but it was 4 years since Redgaurd and they made TB, BM and a whole bunch of the crappy games they use to fund themselves inbetween MW & OB. OB uses more advanced software which makes it longer to make and doesn't cut time down anywhere, if they were to make MW now it would still take them exactly the same amount of time. Now I would have perfered if they delayed the release another year so they could work out more bugs and do more guilds and such but then we would all be here swearing about how Bethseda betrayed us.

You know whats interesting about a previously claim?

He was talking about how it was useless to go get a house, or a horse or anything micianious (Sp...) because the game is about the quests... WRONG!!! The game is a RPG which means you try to pretend to be you're character, live your life in Oblivion. For instance in Morrowind, I broke into Fargoth's house and lived there setting up meals, organizing bring Dwemer Artifacts there... etc. But I lived in Fargoth's house A month game time as i went to sleep at 10pm (game time) and had my character wake up at 9am (game time) and it was fun!

The point of an Rpg is to try to live a life in a different world than our own, thats what makes TES better than the other MMORPG's (sp...) like Runescape or Guildwar. You can live A LIFE in the cultured world of TES by learning the history and having a house decorated, or collected in the same fashion..............

Rant Mode Off

HAHA
Well,who knows what would happen?
I am annoyed with the fact that they promised a lot,but provided so little.
And that's not just RAI mind you (see my first post).
I think that they were more focused on graphics and ''make-up'' then in deeper gameplay.

It's really good that we have such a strong modding community though.
Some balance mods can really improve gameplay.Like slow leveling and G_'s Loot mod.Not to mention the wonderful BT Mod that makes the GUI a LOT better than Bethesda's.


Who said that?

I like the game itself, I just don't like the support that Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition is getting. FIX IT ALREADY, [censored]!

Stargelman: Watch your language!

My personal view on Oblivion is actually a contradiction of views really. I think Oblivion taken by itself is a great game. It has easily consumed 100's hours that were fun and enjoyable. This much time of course only because of the easy moddability of the game. Few games I purchase can boast so much playable time.

On the other side... I might also be considered one of the complainers about the game, simply because I am also viewing Oblivion based on its predecessors in the series. The TES series, to me, was 10 levels above the standard fare of games and as such, yes, I held them to a different standard. These were games that I would literally spend a full year playing non-stop. Mostly because they were truly Role-Playing Games. Oblivion lost alot of its Role-Playing.

The fun and wonderment of the game is slowly being lost as I start to realize I am running out of things to truly explore. There is very few things that feel unique to discover and most of the quests left no feeling of conquest or achievement because it took little effort and no thinking to complete each one of them. In fact, instead many times the feeling was frustration at the lack of options and openness in the quests.

Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind each lasted me years of play because there was so much to do and explore. Sadly, Oblivion feels more like a sequel to Battlespire. It was fun to play through, but really the single-solution quests take away the replayability of the previous titles.

The serious lack of any new lore or any real depth to the land, its people, and its politics have greatly lowered my expectations for any future TES games.

Before I make this post any longer... I HOPE that Bethesda will realize they took the wrong direction with the game in making it so simplistic and make TES V a title worthy of the respect I once had for the series. I fear though that this is a trend in the new generation of gaming that will have me lamenting the loss of the good old days of PC gaming.

The funny thing is that the devs have been trying desperately to make that impossible. It seems they don't want people actually spending more time with their games as was before.

And after reading Neela's post I say it once again: I now respect your opinions more after reading your opinion on Oblivion. You said a great many sensible things and it was well put. Congratulations!

The awful truth is that Bethesda have been giving us something in one hand and taking something away in the other. That's the truth. Now I say something to Bethesda and they should do good to listen to this. Make 2 game series! One retarded game for the consoles with great graphics and a nice fight system but with shallow gameplay. Another game for the PC crowd which will continue the legacy of Morrowind and Daggerfall and bring pride to the series. Stop dumbing down the damn game!

Morrowind was great for both the Xbox and the PC, the system is not the issue here, the X360 had plenty of power to run it, the devs just didn't use it to make the game as in depth as we'd hoped...

The game wasn't dumbed down because it was available for other systems than the PC it was mainstreamed so that Beth could sell more copies which is obviously the goal of any game company.

So lets not make this a system war k? Those are not so good.

I'm not making this a system war, I don't care about the system to be honest, but I was just stating the obvious. The game has been showing increased signs of console-zation (if there is such a word) as in making the game more like a console game than a PC game. Changing the interface and the inventory system for example. I liked the Morrowind journal, it actually felt like a journal. In Oblivion they gathered up everything they could and made it one thing, the Journal. When I first accesed the journal to be honest I couldn't understand a thing. I randomly clicked on those silly icons until I found what I wanted. There isn't one bit of writing in the initial screen of the jounal! That is a sign of console-zation if you ask me. I hope the game doesn't become an exclusive console game, that would be the ultimate bad thing that could happen. No more mods, no more console, no more CS. That is cutting away way too many options for some people.

Aye, the "console-zation" of the game is a big minus. The journal thing and especially the way my character moves and jumps and the camera moves feels very console. Ok, the characters in Oblivion move nicely and realistic in compared to for instance Morrowind, but too fast and they jump very high
Oblivion is too easy, that's the biggest thing that I get a bit frustated with. You don't have to think at all if you don't want to, and complete every quest easily with the help of the journal and maps and markers.
But still quest in Oblivion gives a feeling of 'WOW' for me. They are a bit more action packed, at least they give a impression of being that. The only action packed quest I remember from Morrowind was to save that lady (I don't remember her name) but maybe you remember the part you had to go to the High Fane and sneak in to that floating rock to save her and teleport away. Morrowind had lots of fetch that and give it to that guy "quests". Like: go and buy five portions of muck
All in all, I'm very impressed with Oblivion. As I like to play sneaky characters, I've noticed that there's so much to do for the moraless thug. It even feels like one of the Thief games some times.
And the combat system is great it really feels like your in somekind of control of what you do, it's not just click and smash. It's more like; click a little and a little bit more, parry, slide, and click; now
There is some few flaws and disappointments, like the lack of strange and imaginative wierd details (which got me draw my breath in Morrowind), but compared to all other rp games I've played so far, this really is a masterpiece.

Yeah it's a great game when compared to most other games besides Elderscrolls games, for some reason I measure them on a completely different level than other games. Oblivion removed too much of the weird stuff that kept you wondering and gave you that surreal feeling, I personally think OB was just too real.

The journal could have been different, I also liked the Morrowind version better but I played on the Xbox and it didn't seem badly done, the triggers turned the pages and the "A" button selected entries.

I also liked in Morrowind that the entries were actually written as if the character had written them not like in Oblivion where it seems like a computer wrote them.

It only seemed to have one culture..
To tell the truth I had much more fun when I played morrowind for the first time. Oblivion immediately didnt have the same feeling. It has the freedom, but everything is repetitive. In morrowind you go to the swampy fishing culture of Seyda Neen and Hla Oad. Then on the east coast the mushroom houses and the grasslands. Then on the south coast the vivec building-type. Then around that is the ashlands, bordering the forests. Then you go find ashlanders. Head to the center and find blight storms. Around that being the Redoran like buildings..that look like bug things.. I dunno. Head to solsthiem for the nordic north culture.

In oblivion, a lot of the houses look the same. And are dull. And no one seems different in it. I want morrowind to quit popping errors up >.< I miss it.

Well, I haven't got Oblivion yet so... But I'm still sitting here enjoying playing Morrowind...

Pity there arent more people like me. I use both the pc and console. I dont do this moronic thing where I pretend there is some major difference between the two. Of course like I said, since I look at it from both sides I see an awful lot of pcs users being so arrogant. I cant blame them really, Im sure playing console games means you have a COMPLETELY different method of playing games altogether.

Please people, while you brought up plenty of good reasons why the game isnt as good as previous ones, please leave the "It was dumbed down for console users" excuse alone. Its really pathetic. Some people have good reasons for playing Oblivion (or any games for the matter) on console.

Like me, I chose not to pay the insanely priced upgrades for my average pc and chose the insanely priced (but slightly cheaper in my case) Xbox 360. If you dont like Oblivion, fine. But Oblivion being released on the 360 should have nothing to do with why you dislike it. Because I for one have not seen a valid reason how PC games and console games differ.

The console, has caused a downgrade in all games, because the console is more played by kids and teens. While the computer (which is only used for Msn for those little ********) is an obsolete piece of machinery to them. And the kids of today love gangsters, rap, etc... so they like the hacking and slashing games of the console (Halo). So Bethsada had to take out all the longer quests and make them a lot shorter so they could have the kids interest.

In my opion Bethsada shouldn't release 2 different games depending on the machine you play on, they should release it for Mature Gamers and Child-Teen Gamers. So that way, us who like to Rp can. And the kids who love hacking and slashing can do thier thing...

Well if what you say is true then blame the developers not the consoles and their users. The console HASNT caused a downgrade in all games, the developers have. They are the ones who feel the need to cater for the rapping slashing ganster kids. They should simply ignore what they want, and make it for the console and pc gamers who enjoy playing involving and smart games.

So, just like you said, more mature rated games with better content. And I guarantee you the sort of person you listed doesnt just stick to playing console games. I know plenty of people like that who happily play pc as well as console. So dont try to separate stupid gamers and smart gamers into console gamers and pc gamers, because its an insult.

Edit: Im not saying you are separating those people or doing anything in this post Darkhunter and I can see my post would give that impression, I apologize. But this is a sore spot for me as I feel since I play console games I get labeled as a moron.

This guy put my thoughts exactly, Joryn has the same thoughts as me on the "dumbed down for the consoles" crap. Quoted for truth.



Once again, his opinion is the same as mine, quit blaming the consoles...it hasn't been dumbed down for the console...that isn't the reason the game isn't as in depth because the developers wanted to mainstream it to get better sales for the Xbox and the PC.

Oh and Darkhunter...I use the computer for MSN so lets keep any possible insults to a minumum ok...

Let's try to keep this on topic.
Obviously, The Elder Scrolls has been fine on consoles... look at MW.
So, any more on-topic comments on whether you like OB?

Morrowind was fine on consoles because it was ported from the PC. Oblivion was more mainstreamed to catter for more sales on the consoles and the PCs alike. The devs should realise that people aren't retards and that they appreciate a game that makes you think and appreciate it for its depth, like the previous TES games were (At least that's what I think). I remember how I called one of my friends over to my shack and I showed him Morrowind. I liked to tell him about the religion and show him the various types of culture. I even showed him Vivec once. When I started showing him Oblivion it was rather bland and generic compared to Morrowind when it came to lore and things like that. At least that's what he told me. I, myself, didn't have that much to show him since there's only so much of Bravil and more unique cities like that that can be shown before it gets old.

I'm not saying that console users are morons or anything of the sort. I'm insulting the younger generation and thier horrible taste. And I'm sorry about the Msn thing, I was only saying that younger kids ONLY use the computer for Msn, and that drives me insane...

Ah well, the younger generation is pretty weird. And from what I see with the MSN, I see you're a conservative Dark Hunter, are you not? As I've seen so far, I think "The Next Generation" would become a word all TES players loathe.

I agree with you, finally, and yes I am a little conservative... just a little...

hmm regarding some of the later posts in here, i'm inclined to compare modern games, which are in many regards no match to their ancestors, with modern books. Massproduction for a massmarket with ideas of the masses only containing what the mass wants to see.

You won't find a book that could meet lets say a 19th century book, only as a rare exception to the rule.
Same with games. Good, funny, entertaining, but not exalted.

I think that perhaps the biggest problem with Oblivion was that for some reason no matter what I did I didn't really feel that it was a great accomplishment. In Morrowind I actually felt as if I'd just raided a unique ruin when I stole from a tomb or something, in Oblivion they all seem too much alike.

Maybe it's not that Oblivion is bad, maybe I just set my standards too high because of Morrowind...I dunno what it is, I simply didn't feel like it was a fantasy world when I played Oblivion, there wasn't enough weird stuff to keep me guessing.

Missed this thread - but I most say I was a little disappointed by Oblivion.

I've been following this game since I joined the TES Forums and then I finally got it. I played for hours a day, exploring, doing quests and all that. I agree with many of the disappointments here, about the NPCs poor conversations etc. cause I agree with Kiln alot.

Something that disappointed me the most was the Main Quest and quests in general... On Oblivion I did focus more on the MQ then I did in Morrowind. But, it felt poor. It was mostly the the 'fight and find' kinda thing. I don't remember the hour differance between the MQ on Oblivion and Morrowind, but the MQ in Morrowind felt nearly four times larger than Oblivion. First of all, the fast travel and compass kinda ruined it all - all was too easy and little exploring. You end up jumping into another Oblivion Gate after another. In Morrowind it all felt much larger, the landscape and everything it was really fun exploring while everything in Oblivion looks the same.
Completeing the MQ in Oblivion at level 16, playing with pretty high difficulty I found out it was challanging, but it was the fighting which was challanging but most the other quests wasn't that fun to play, great ideas like the painting brush and all that, but... it wasn't anything I felt apart in - the way I wanted it to be.
At the end of the quests I also agree with Kiln was the 'great accomplishment' feeling when finishing a big quest or the main quest... In Morrowind, I really got that feeling 'Yes, I've done it - Finally" completing the main quest in level 63.

The dungeons and everything to, I didn't enjoy going into a dungeon or tomb like I did in Morrowind. In Oblivion I was hoping for it too happen something, I was running around, trying to find different switches to open doors and all that but I wasn't really enjoying many of the dungeons. In Morrowind, they were also much a like but I had a much better feeling.. feeling like the character when I went to raid a tomb.

Comparing all good and bad from Oblivion - against Morrowind, Bloodmoon and Tribunal it was very little in the general gameplay I was happy about. I miss the feeling of those real challanges which I experianced in Morrowind, depth, the main quest which seemed so HUGE compared to Oblivion's MQ...

I haven't played Oblivion in a month now, my character is stuck at level 20 or something - but I played Morrowind until I reached level 66 or something - with about two or three quest mods installed. So after following this game as long as I did before I got my hands on them, I'm disappointed but maybe I'm in the same situation as Kiln - Simply expected to much.

So what I've been trying to tell here, is that I just miss the feeling of being apart of something, as I did in Morrowind. We also have the technical issues, which can be found in both games. But those I haven't really encountered yet and something I really don't mind all that much.

I really hope there will come out some really nice expansions and mods soon, with large and deep quests which really makes the game more fun...

That's all I have to say...

I will DEFINATELY agree to that. There was just something in the main quest, and plenty of the guild and misc ones, that made me think "somethings missing here, Im sure of it". And its a shame because there were some great bits.

I thought Martin Septim and Mankar Camoran were great characters, with great voice acting. Its a pity they were giving more ways to show and continue with it. The actualy storyline of Morrowind is unbelievably better than Oblivion.

It was so much more epic, it was full of prophecies and trials and destinies. In Oblivion your a mysterious prisoner, who doesnt seem to be recognised by name throughout the entire game (in text I mean, they used to do that alot in Morrowind didnt they?).

It was just "Oh dear, I witnessed the Emporors death. I must now toady about for the rest of the main quest, obligated to do what complete strangers tell me to...."
I dont hate the game, but I certainly think Beth said "Im bored, lets just finish this quick and go home" in certain aspects of the game.

Ill say one thing to finish on though. If you ask me, you can always tell a casual Elder Scrolls player apart from a hardcore one, when they say "The only bad point about Oblivion is it will consume your life!!!".

It's disappointing in some ways, but not enough to make me stop playing. It just seems like they made it harder where it didn't need to be (I'm so tired of having to recharge my items every half-second) and made it easier where it didn't need to be. (Fast travel for example; I was perfectly fine with silt striders, boats, and recall. They could've given us caravans/caoches, boats and recall.)

All in all, I enjoy the depth of the quests more; some of the DB quests were ridiculously well-thought out. I especially liked the one where I had to kill everyone in the house without them knowing...

Well, my hubby Cain is thrilled with Oblivion because his computer handles it with no lag, no problems ... but for me, I cannot afford right now the upgrades it would cost to make Oblivion run more smoothly and enjoyably on my comp.

I play it for awhile in spurts, but the lagginess gets to me after awhile, especially when some populated areas just go by frame by frame it seems. That's when I stop. I've been modding a bit for it, but I've now found out that my computer with it's present double boot setup of w98/w2k split hard drive cannot in anyway fit the exploded data files of Oblivion onto the w2k hard drive area. I would have to give up playing Dungeons & Dragons or Guild Wars, both of which I enjoy. That means - no retexturing modding for Oblivion, which is something I really love to do.

So, I've returned to Morrowind modding for now. Making some celestial wizard robes that I intended to be for Oblivion when I found the textures. But, I figure I'll make them in MW and then later maybe, after I reformat - I can remake them for Obliv.

Shoot, Ibis, if I had a comp laying around that would get you good framerates, I'd send it to you... alas I don't

I'm starting to agree with the other folks.... I'm still playing OB, but doubt I'll play it as much as MW overall. There are some absolutely fantastic parts to OB that still take my breath away, and bode well for the future - if Beth can get the story right again.

Wonder where their going next? (Here's hoping for Valenwood... I wanna kill Wood Elves!!!!!!)

I dunno, I just hope that there's more fantasy elements in the next game because this one seemed to be missing a lot of things that kept me interested in MW.

The cities were much too generic and most books were borrowed from Morrowind. I had more pleasure exploring in Morrowind knowing that I could find loads of unique things. I remember the amazement I felt when I found a Velothi tower in the ashlands that had 3 Redoran warriors inside and a Telvanni wizard who was hiding. Scratch that from Gondor "Cyrodiil".