Ahh, but like the Daily Show says, new reports say most of America is against the war in Iraq, not killing Osama.
I personally think its great that the general public knows that they might get attacked and have been told about the recent threat, instead of not being told about definate plans and being treated to Bush's next vacation. I think that Bush will use this as a distraction to divert from the dead economy and daily corruption and forget that there are troops making sure terrorist opperations are close to impossible.
Non-related question, is it ok if we make a comment on the last topic?
Full Version: Waiting4oblivion Parliament
QUOTE(Neela @ Jan 16 2006, 12:33 AM)
Having them have nuclear power for energy isn't the problem. The problem is can they be trusted not to make nuclear weapons? Iran has a leadership that denies that Israel as a state even exists. Its the EU and Israel that have much more to worry about in truth as Iran doesn't have missile capable of hitting the US. Though that doesn't mean that we wouldn't be drawn into a very difficult choice should they choose to use them.
I think it's safe to say this won't be happening.
In the early 80s, Israel was convinced that Iraq tried to develop nuclear weapons at a facility in Osiraq. Supposedly, depending on differing estimates, they were still either 1-2 or 5-10 years away from a working prototype. The facility was declared as a nuclear power plant. It was about to go "hot", that is, was about to be activated.
From this website:
"At 15:55 on 07 June 1981, the first F-15 and F-16's roared off the runway from Etzion Air Force Base in the south. Israeli air force planes flew over Jordanian, Saudi, and Iraqi airspace After a tense but uneventful low-level navigation route, the fighters reached their target. They popped up at 17:35 and quickly identified the dome gleaming in the late afternoon sunlight. Iraqi defenses were caught by surprise and opened fire too late. In one minute and twenty seconds, the reactor lay in ruins."
I guess it's safe to say that if they didn't want Iraq to have this kind of weapons capability, Iran is probably the last country they'd want to have it. They'll do what they think is necessary, with all means available to them. And as much as I might disagree with many policies of the Israeli government, it'd probably be for the best. With someone like Ahmadinejad at the helm, such weapons would definitely be in the wrong hands. I do think most of what he said lately was pure populism, but ... who knows.
Besides, I think nobody should have such weapons, but that's a different matter altogether.
About Osama Bin Laden, he's right, most Americans do not agree with the war on Iraq, and he probably knows most Americans hate him as well, but but of course he's also right, there's nothing America can do to prevent another terrorist attack. We have left ourselves less safe since 9/11 because Bush still doesn't seem to realize what the source of terrorism is, even with Bin laden basically telling him. Terrorism is not some widespread movement right now or anything like that, it simply occurs when a particular group loses their means to fight conventionally and has been angered enough they decide to fight back unconventionally, using terror against the general population as their weapon. The United States is constantly taking away people's rights to fight conventionally. This isn't bad if the country means to attack us, but if they don't mean any harm, then all you're doing is breeding more terrorists.
About Nuclear power, read anything by Helen Caldicott. She rights more about all the orrible effects nuclear testing has had on us and still has on us, but if I'm not mistaken theres quite a bit in their about all the problems with Nuclear Energy.
About Iran, I don't believe Israel exists as a state either, until they come up with a resolution that does not involve massive oppression against the Palestinians. I believe they deserve a state, but their option at this point is either to share the land and live in peace with Palestine or go on being hated by the entire Muslim world.
About Nuclear power, read anything by Helen Caldicott. She rights more about all the orrible effects nuclear testing has had on us and still has on us, but if I'm not mistaken theres quite a bit in their about all the problems with Nuclear Energy.
About Iran, I don't believe Israel exists as a state either, until they come up with a resolution that does not involve massive oppression against the Palestinians. I believe they deserve a state, but their option at this point is either to share the land and live in peace with Palestine or go on being hated by the entire Muslim world.
I'll take that as a yes to my prior question.
I think Bush is going overboard with Iran. He says the're a threat because they want to have nuculear (sp? I just woke up, its early, give me a break
) power power that could be used for wepons and refuse to stop. Well, I think that happened before didn't it? You know, when America was asked to stop testing, they refused. Also, when you have the biggest amount of wepons on earth and could likely destroy the entire world by yourself, are currently in a war and have been involved in numerous coups and assasination attempts, you aren't allowed to be "concerned" with a countries growing military. That is called world-wide military domination as is frowned upon greatly.
And on the note of terrorists, there is no word-wide terrorist organization and there will only be one they all decide to give up religion and attack the U.S. Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein have no connection and only will if America keeps fighting this way.
I think Bush is going overboard with Iran. He says the're a threat because they want to have nuculear (sp? I just woke up, its early, give me a break
) power power that could be used for wepons and refuse to stop. Well, I think that happened before didn't it? You know, when America was asked to stop testing, they refused. Also, when you have the biggest amount of wepons on earth and could likely destroy the entire world by yourself, are currently in a war and have been involved in numerous coups and assasination attempts, you aren't allowed to be "concerned" with a countries growing military. That is called world-wide military domination as is frowned upon greatly.And on the note of terrorists, there is no word-wide terrorist organization and there will only be one they all decide to give up religion and attack the U.S. Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein have no connection and only will if America keeps fighting this way.
I am heavily opposed to the Iran government, I just think their claim of Israel not being a state was not a good example as to why they are a bad government. Perhaps a better reason would be to look at the way their society treats their women, or to look at the way most of their government officials look at other religions. They have an intolerant state and an oppresive society. Nonetheless, the reason they're turning to trying to build up their weapons is because Bush has made countless threats against them. He's basically bombed the crap out of a country next to them, then openly claimed their next. That would make anyone jump into an arms race.
I agree with you that Iran wants nuclear weapons just for that reason. They surely look at North Korea as an example. There is a certain level of protection by having nuclear weapons in your arsenal. It is simply my fear that the government of Iran is exactly the type that might use them offensively. They don't care much for their own people so that whole deterrent of retaliation means little to them.
What happens if they do use them? Israel would almost certainly retaliate with its own nuclear attacks should they be the target. How does the US respond then? How does Europe? What if Europe ends up a target? How many outcries from people do we have to hear saying enough wasn't done to stop them from having nukes then?
I personally am glad that we are letting the EU be the primary negotiator with Iran. Perhaps when they finally get fed up with the run around they might actually back the US should intervention become necessary.
What happens if they do use them? Israel would almost certainly retaliate with its own nuclear attacks should they be the target. How does the US respond then? How does Europe? What if Europe ends up a target? How many outcries from people do we have to hear saying enough wasn't done to stop them from having nukes then?
I personally am glad that we are letting the EU be the primary negotiator with Iran. Perhaps when they finally get fed up with the run around they might actually back the US should intervention become necessary.
It's the US's mistake for threatening them so harshly. The stupid idiots in government don't even seem to have any idea how fragile peace is. And to the wqorst, most Americans have this stupid idea that the US can kick anyone's boat in this day and age with no retaliation.
QUOTE(DoomedOne @ Jan 25 2006, 07:57 PM)
It's the US's mistake for threatening them so harshly. The stupid idiots in government don't even seem to have any idea how fragile peace is. And to the wqorst, most Americans have this stupid idea that the US can kick anyone's boat in this day and age with no retaliation.
You are right Doomed, that the general population of America has become, well, I don't want to use the word . .. but . . . ignorant. Even though the past generations were equally or even more ignorant than the current one, this day and age does not easily permit such ignorance. I suppose that the first step to resolving this nuclear issue in Iran, is to invade and replace the current government with a puppet one that bends to every whim and fancy of Israel.
What is it, though, seriously?
Such a small population of people in Israel, yet the country holds dominant influence on so many different aspects of the world. I for one don't trust a nuclear bomb in the hands of Iran or Israel (or to go along the lines of Stargelman, anyone for that matter) but we don't seem to mind that a country such as Israel has a weapon that could unleash a devastating effect upon other nations, just to annex more land. I have nothing against people who practice Judaism, but for some reason I know someone is going to lable me as anti-semitic if I go public with my criticism of Israel. Why? I do not hold grudges against people of any Religion, Race, Ethinicity, or Skin color, but I do hold grudges against people of certain nationalities. Neela, Iran and North Korea are not the only ones who would go after nuclear weapons so they could feel a sense of protection.
I think Irans statement calling for the destruction of Israel is disturbing and obviously is not going to do much to gain the trust of the Americans, but even if no comments had been made about Israel, the United States would probably still place pressure on Iran, and allow Israel to carry out a strike on its nuclear facilities. Israel is a dangerous nation, that is why the United States bends to its will. A strike on Iran is illogical, Iran has a very large and powerful armed forces, that even though they may not compare to Americas, can do much in a war against Israel. I think that the pressure on Iran to halt its civillian nuclear energy research is very wrong.
Uh.. let me inteject here.
Gamer, you do know that Israel's military is closely along the lines of our, and the UK's military in strength? And that because they HAVE to join the military at 18 (?.. Both men and women, but are numerous ways to get out of it.) There numbers are nothing to sneer at.
Personally, I don't like Iran to much. But I think Israel will be the first to launch some form of aggression.
I'll tel you though, we wont step in on Irans behalf though.
Gamer, you do know that Israel's military is closely along the lines of our, and the UK's military in strength? And that because they HAVE to join the military at 18 (?.. Both men and women, but are numerous ways to get out of it.) There numbers are nothing to sneer at.
Personally, I don't like Iran to much. But I think Israel will be the first to launch some form of aggression.
I'll tel you though, we wont step in on Irans behalf though.
QUOTE(Channler @ Jan 27 2006, 03:46 PM)
Uh.. let me inteject here.
Gamer, you do know that Israel's military is closely along the lines of our, and the UK's military in strength?
Gamer, you do know that Israel's military is closely along the lines of our, and the UK's military in strength?
Of course I do, my parents tax dollars go towards their military, we give them their rifles for free.
Sure, but why maintain such a large armed forces (I never said they'd fall to Iran, to the contrary, they'll have America's and Europe's backing), what is the purpose of it?
Some might answer: they are threatened by the nations they border.
Wrong sir! Wrong!
They are thretened by others about as much as they threaten others, the large military is needed in order to send messages to other nations. Its a support of whatever blackmail that can be thrown around. Not that I'm solely targeting Israel, I find most nations to be corrupt in this manner, but for a population of 6 million an armed forces that large is rather peculiar.
Frankly I don't care if any nation has a army for just defense, however, your right in that aspect that Israel has a military of that size to.. Wow? their enemies. However, you fight some of these islamic nations that truly believe that blowing theirselves up into tiny chunks will grant them a way into heaven, and you realize that an army of that size doesn't really faze them.
Heh, look at the US, the best (I had to say it, too true
) military in the world, and we have problems from... 2,000+ "freedom fighters" in Iraq alone.
We are fighting a 4 Generation War. The terrorists are fighting a second or third generation war.
4 G war = Late Cold war to present. Confrontational armies, limited war. Ex. Soviet Union vs United States.
3 G War = Vietnam/Korea(Sorta). Vietcong, Guerillas (SP?)
2 G war = Bombing the compassion out of each other. Total War. Trenches, both World Wars
1 G war = Stand in a line and get shot... Civil War, Revo War, Napoleonic Wars etc etc
The terrorists are fighting a 3 g war. And they are very successful. We are fighting a 4 g war. And we whiped Saddams armies the hamster out.
..but.. Ho Chi Minh knew that eventually the US would turn against itself in the Vietnam war, he counted on it, and the gamble won. Saddam tried the idea out, and he lost.. Osama is currently quite knowledgeable of that fact and he knows, as it is showng now, that the US pop, once all up in arms is now but a sleeping lion. As long as he does nothing major, he can slip by, and the lion will sleep, but if he tries to attack the lion. It is all over.
He will wait till he escapes the lion, and then, when the lion (US) least expects it, will strike again.
Heh, look at the US, the best (I had to say it, too true
) military in the world, and we have problems from... 2,000+ "freedom fighters" in Iraq alone. We are fighting a 4 Generation War. The terrorists are fighting a second or third generation war.
4 G war = Late Cold war to present. Confrontational armies, limited war. Ex. Soviet Union vs United States.
3 G War = Vietnam/Korea(Sorta). Vietcong, Guerillas (SP?)
2 G war = Bombing the compassion out of each other. Total War. Trenches, both World Wars
1 G war = Stand in a line and get shot... Civil War, Revo War, Napoleonic Wars etc etc
The terrorists are fighting a 3 g war. And they are very successful. We are fighting a 4 g war. And we whiped Saddams armies the hamster out.
..but.. Ho Chi Minh knew that eventually the US would turn against itself in the Vietnam war, he counted on it, and the gamble won. Saddam tried the idea out, and he lost.. Osama is currently quite knowledgeable of that fact and he knows, as it is showng now, that the US pop, once all up in arms is now but a sleeping lion. As long as he does nothing major, he can slip by, and the lion will sleep, but if he tries to attack the lion. It is all over.
He will wait till he escapes the lion, and then, when the lion (US) least expects it, will strike again.
QUOTE(Channler @ Jan 27 2006, 06:32 PM)
He will wait till he escapes the lion, and then, when the lion (US) least expects it, will strike again.
Then we might decide to 2G war him.
If something of the magnitude of the first major attack occurs within the United States again its sure to tick a ton of people off, including me.
You can't simply crash a plane into a tower and expect America to go along and play nice. If this war (Iraq) wasn't for the reason of seeking justice or fighting terrorists (I have my own views on this matter) than the terrorists sure gave us a good excuse to go and bomb the . . . .carp outta their host nations in order to seek other things.
By the way
Cnacer rates are signifancantly higher down-wind and down stream of nuclear power plants.
Warmer water emissions have been shown occassionally to distrupt the ecosystem around these plants.
Wastes is a huge problem, one that people came has been handled, but hasn't, the most they've done is made really expensive containers. If nuclear power plants were to replace oil as the main source of power, then you can imagine all the wastes no one would know what to do with.
Without being known, parts all over a plant can wear down or break, and that could do anything from allowing even more radiation to escape to causing a melt-down.
You may say I should let this go but I never did, I simply decided to go back to researching on the subject. You want to know about the dangers of nuclear power then I reccomend Helen Coldecaut.
Cnacer rates are signifancantly higher down-wind and down stream of nuclear power plants.
Warmer water emissions have been shown occassionally to distrupt the ecosystem around these plants.
Wastes is a huge problem, one that people came has been handled, but hasn't, the most they've done is made really expensive containers. If nuclear power plants were to replace oil as the main source of power, then you can imagine all the wastes no one would know what to do with.
Without being known, parts all over a plant can wear down or break, and that could do anything from allowing even more radiation to escape to causing a melt-down.
You may say I should let this go but I never did, I simply decided to go back to researching on the subject. You want to know about the dangers of nuclear power then I reccomend Helen Coldecaut.
I reckon that it’s nothing that can't be prevented.
It's also the next best alternative when it comes to costs, so it's not a matter of if we'll switch but more a matter of when.
When is important because if we start developing on time there is less chance for critical errors to occur. They would occure if we are forced to rush it.
Still nuclear energy has the same problems as other fuel based energy, it tends to run out, still it would be unwise to not develop plans and systems for a safer and more efficient nuclear plant, we don't have to use them but might need them.
Better safe the sorry.
edit:
On the topic of nuclear weapons:
When my own livelyhood is at stake I rather be the person with all weapons. It's not so much a matter of justice or right but a matter of staying alive.
It's also the next best alternative when it comes to costs, so it's not a matter of if we'll switch but more a matter of when.
When is important because if we start developing on time there is less chance for critical errors to occur. They would occure if we are forced to rush it.
Still nuclear energy has the same problems as other fuel based energy, it tends to run out, still it would be unwise to not develop plans and systems for a safer and more efficient nuclear plant, we don't have to use them but might need them.
Better safe the sorry.
edit:
On the topic of nuclear weapons:
When my own livelyhood is at stake I rather be the person with all weapons. It's not so much a matter of justice or right but a matter of staying alive.
QUOTE(Channler @ Jan 27 2006, 11:32 PM)
Frankly I don't care if any nation has a army for just defense, however, your right in that aspect that Israel has a military of that size to.. Wow? their enemies. However, you fight some of these islamic nations that truly believe that blowing theirselves up into tiny chunks will grant them a way into heaven, and you realize that an army of that size doesn't really faze them.
Heh, look at the US, the best (I had to say it, too true) military in the world, and we have problems from... 2,000+ "freedom fighters" in Iraq alone.
We are fighting a 4 Generation War. The terrorists are fighting a second or third generation war.
4 G war = Late Cold war to present. Confrontational armies, limited war. Ex. Soviet Union vs United States.
3 G War = Vietnam/Korea(Sorta). Vietcong, Guerillas (SP?)
2 G war = Bombing the compassion out of each other. Total War. Trenches, both World Wars
1 G war = Stand in a line and get shot... Civil War, Revo War, Napoleonic Wars etc etc
The terrorists are fighting a 3 g war. And they are very successful. We are fighting a 4 g war. And we whiped Saddams armies the hamster out.
..but.. Ho Chi Minh knew that eventually the US would turn against itself in the Vietnam war, he counted on it, and the gamble won. Saddam tried the idea out, and he lost.. Osama is currently quite knowledgeable of that fact and he knows, as it is showng now, that the US pop, once all up in arms is now but a sleeping lion. As long as he does nothing major, he can slip by, and the lion will sleep, but if he tries to attack the lion. It is all over.
He will wait till he escapes the lion, and then, when the lion (US) least expects it, will strike again.
Heh, look at the US, the best (I had to say it, too true
) military in the world, and we have problems from... 2,000+ "freedom fighters" in Iraq alone. We are fighting a 4 Generation War. The terrorists are fighting a second or third generation war.
4 G war = Late Cold war to present. Confrontational armies, limited war. Ex. Soviet Union vs United States.
3 G War = Vietnam/Korea(Sorta). Vietcong, Guerillas (SP?)
2 G war = Bombing the compassion out of each other. Total War. Trenches, both World Wars
1 G war = Stand in a line and get shot... Civil War, Revo War, Napoleonic Wars etc etc
The terrorists are fighting a 3 g war. And they are very successful. We are fighting a 4 g war. And we whiped Saddams armies the hamster out.
..but.. Ho Chi Minh knew that eventually the US would turn against itself in the Vietnam war, he counted on it, and the gamble won. Saddam tried the idea out, and he lost.. Osama is currently quite knowledgeable of that fact and he knows, as it is showng now, that the US pop, once all up in arms is now but a sleeping lion. As long as he does nothing major, he can slip by, and the lion will sleep, but if he tries to attack the lion. It is all over.
He will wait till he escapes the lion, and then, when the lion (US) least expects it, will strike again.
I agree with you completely. The problem with Osama is that people think he's the head of some word wide terrorist organization, when he isn't. Terrorists aren't organized and most hate eachother (Some reports say Saddam wished for the Death of Osama), but the war breeds more hate and terrorists and makes terrorists start to be able to stand eachother. George Bush makes it seem like every single terrorist is connected, but even the main criminals involved with the WTC bombings were from different countries. There is no long term end to terrorism and peace is now, thanks to war, impossible. Terrorist attacks may stop for a few days, maybe a week in the future, but fear is only a small sedative that leads to hate, and hate is the steroid that rekindles past conflict.
Red, well while your point makes sense, what you suggest is appeasement... WW2 anyone?
NEwho.. I'm pissed
Takin from http://www.unknownsoldiers.org/barracks/vi...pic.php?t=14253, my BF2 clan website.
This makes me angry. I play P-ball every week drop hundreds of dollars into it. If I were in IL I think I'd be leading some paintball brigades to the capitol. I've sent a letter as well, and if you even marginally enjoy paintball (or support our 2nd amendment right) please send a letter too.
NEwho.. I'm pissed
QUOTE
This was courtesy of Tyger at SpecialOps paintball
Not scare tactics, it's playing out in real life.
I've been getting e-mails from people in the industry about this, and here's the basics.
HB2414 CRIM CD-BANS SEMIAUTOMATIC http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus...33&SessionID=50
and
HB4132 CRIM CD-REPLICA WEAPONS http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus...80&SessionID=50
Quote:
HB4132
Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Provides that it is unlawful for any person to purchase, possess, use, sell, give away, or otherwise transfer, or to engage in the business of selling, or to exhibit for sale, any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items. Provides that a violation is a Class A misdemeanor.
So what does this mean? In simple terms, anyone using anything that looks, reacts, or appears to be a replica firearm will be in violation of Illinois law. this includes milsim paintguns to toy guns to parade guns that marching bands use. This could also include any paintgun that has a "gun" look, meaning all of them. I got this in my in-box today.
Quote:
I just spoke to our house rep's office about this legislation. Rep McGuire's office has told me that yes, as the legislation is written, it will outlaw paintball (and air soft) in the state of Illinois. This includes the sale and distribution of paintball supplies. I would appreciate it if you all would begin contacting (and have as many people at your respective companies contact) Representative Edward Acevedo's office to explain how many jobs will be lost, and tax dollars lost if paintball as an industry is outlawed in the state of Illinois. His office number in Springfield is 217-782-2855. This legislation is in 2nd reading- which means there's not a lot of time left. PLEASE do whatever you can to ensure the full impact of this legislation is known by all members of the House.
Thank you.
Gretchen Shay
Challenge Park Xtreme
On a national level, if you get your stuff from PMI, Action Village, Draxxus or any other IL distribution point you are affected. If you use any product from Centerflag or Air America, you're affected. This legislation also opens doors for other states to introduce and implement similar legislation.
If you live in Illinois, call your state representative and tell them you are AGAINST these bills as written! Even if you're not in Illinois, you can help by opposing this bill. Tell them how much revinue will be lost, and how many people will lose jobs and how many taxes will be lost if this bill goes through as is. You want to do something for paintball, this is it.
(As a note, if you don't know who your state rep is, literally google "Who is the state representative for (your town)" and you can get an answer.)
-Tyger
Not scare tactics, it's playing out in real life.
I've been getting e-mails from people in the industry about this, and here's the basics.
HB2414 CRIM CD-BANS SEMIAUTOMATIC http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus...33&SessionID=50
and
HB4132 CRIM CD-REPLICA WEAPONS http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus...80&SessionID=50
Quote:
HB4132
Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Provides that it is unlawful for any person to purchase, possess, use, sell, give away, or otherwise transfer, or to engage in the business of selling, or to exhibit for sale, any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items. Provides that a violation is a Class A misdemeanor.
So what does this mean? In simple terms, anyone using anything that looks, reacts, or appears to be a replica firearm will be in violation of Illinois law. this includes milsim paintguns to toy guns to parade guns that marching bands use. This could also include any paintgun that has a "gun" look, meaning all of them. I got this in my in-box today.
Quote:
I just spoke to our house rep's office about this legislation. Rep McGuire's office has told me that yes, as the legislation is written, it will outlaw paintball (and air soft) in the state of Illinois. This includes the sale and distribution of paintball supplies. I would appreciate it if you all would begin contacting (and have as many people at your respective companies contact) Representative Edward Acevedo's office to explain how many jobs will be lost, and tax dollars lost if paintball as an industry is outlawed in the state of Illinois. His office number in Springfield is 217-782-2855. This legislation is in 2nd reading- which means there's not a lot of time left. PLEASE do whatever you can to ensure the full impact of this legislation is known by all members of the House.
Thank you.
Gretchen Shay
Challenge Park Xtreme
On a national level, if you get your stuff from PMI, Action Village, Draxxus or any other IL distribution point you are affected. If you use any product from Centerflag or Air America, you're affected. This legislation also opens doors for other states to introduce and implement similar legislation.
If you live in Illinois, call your state representative and tell them you are AGAINST these bills as written! Even if you're not in Illinois, you can help by opposing this bill. Tell them how much revinue will be lost, and how many people will lose jobs and how many taxes will be lost if this bill goes through as is. You want to do something for paintball, this is it.
(As a note, if you don't know who your state rep is, literally google "Who is the state representative for (your town)" and you can get an answer.)
-Tyger
Takin from http://www.unknownsoldiers.org/barracks/vi...pic.php?t=14253, my BF2 clan website.
This makes me angry. I play P-ball every week drop hundreds of dollars into it. If I were in IL I think I'd be leading some paintball brigades to the capitol. I've sent a letter as well, and if you even marginally enjoy paintball (or support our 2nd amendment right) please send a letter too.
QUOTE(DoomedOne @ Feb 2 2006, 01:38 AM)
By the way
Cnacer rates are signifancantly higher down-wind and down stream of nuclear power plants.
Warmer water emissions have been shown occassionally to distrupt the ecosystem around these plants.
Wastes is a huge problem, one that people came has been handled, but hasn't, the most they've done is made really expensive containers. If nuclear power plants were to replace oil as the main source of power, then you can imagine all the wastes no one would know what to do with.
Without being known, parts all over a plant can wear down or break, and that could do anything from allowing even more radiation to escape to causing a melt-down.
You may say I should let this go but I never did, I simply decided to go back to researching on the subject. You want to know about the dangers of nuclear power then I reccomend Helen Coldecaut.
Cnacer rates are signifancantly higher down-wind and down stream of nuclear power plants.
Warmer water emissions have been shown occassionally to distrupt the ecosystem around these plants.
Wastes is a huge problem, one that people came has been handled, but hasn't, the most they've done is made really expensive containers. If nuclear power plants were to replace oil as the main source of power, then you can imagine all the wastes no one would know what to do with.
Without being known, parts all over a plant can wear down or break, and that could do anything from allowing even more radiation to escape to causing a melt-down.
You may say I should let this go but I never did, I simply decided to go back to researching on the subject. You want to know about the dangers of nuclear power then I reccomend Helen Coldecaut.
ah yes ok...First I must state that I not only work in a NPP, I actually also work exactly with those issues you mention, since My department is the department of environment control, which also deals with the radioactive waste, radiation protection, industrial safety, radioactive and non-radioactive emission and so on!! So you see I know of the enviromental effects...and the possible risks!!
I will not say you are wrong, because you talk about the situation in your country. What I can talk about is the situation in Sweden, in our plants here!
First: We have very strong limits of radioactive emission to air and water, regarding the warming of the surrounding sea....yes! we do warm it up! But the sealife is under constant supervision and the most spectacular effects are somewhat larger salmons ans possibility to take a swim very late in the autumn!
About the security-systems: It´s not as if different parts of the plant just simply break and cause a melt-down, without any warning!!! No noooooo! Where did you read that? it´s completely nonsense! The security systems in our plant is very strong with four times redundancy.....at least!
The waste now.....In Sweden we have "the swedish system" a complete system for handling and final storage of high activity waste. We also have storages for medium and low actice waste....
Enough for now.....
QUOTE(Proweler @ Feb 2 2006, 03:11 AM)
I reckon that it’s nothing that can't be prevented.
It's also the next best alternative when it comes to costs, so it's not a matter of if we'll switch but more a matter of when.
When is important because if we start developing on time there is less chance for critical errors to occur. They would occure if we are forced to rush it.
Still nuclear energy has the same problems as other fuel based energy, it tends to run out, still it would be unwise to not develop plans and systems for a safer and more efficient nuclear plant, we don't have to use them but might need them.
Better safe the sorry.
It's also the next best alternative when it comes to costs, so it's not a matter of if we'll switch but more a matter of when.
When is important because if we start developing on time there is less chance for critical errors to occur. They would occure if we are forced to rush it.
Still nuclear energy has the same problems as other fuel based energy, it tends to run out, still it would be unwise to not develop plans and systems for a safer and more efficient nuclear plant, we don't have to use them but might need them.
Better safe the sorry.
Very well said!
QUOTE(Channler @ Feb 2 2006, 03:08 AM)
Red, well while your point makes sense, what you suggest is appeasement... WW2 anyone?
NEwho.. I'm pissed
Takin from http://www.unknownsoldiers.org/barracks/vi...pic.php?t=14253, my BF2 clan website.
This makes me angry. I play P-ball every week drop hundreds of dollars into it. If I were in IL I think I'd be leading some paintball brigades to the capitol. I've sent a letter as well, and if you even marginally enjoy paintball (or support our 2nd amendment right) please send a letter too.
NEwho.. I'm pissed
Takin from http://www.unknownsoldiers.org/barracks/vi...pic.php?t=14253, my BF2 clan website.
This makes me angry. I play P-ball every week drop hundreds of dollars into it. If I were in IL I think I'd be leading some paintball brigades to the capitol. I've sent a letter as well, and if you even marginally enjoy paintball (or support our 2nd amendment right) please send a letter too.
That's quite strange. Though I don't support the 2nd amendment, I do support someones right to play a recreational past time. Some one shooting someone with paint, practicing precision, athleticism, strategy, improvisational thinking and such other important factors in life doesn't train people to kill or open our minds to violence or anything of that sort. Thats as sensible as banning water balloon fights.
I don't know if this is the right place for this.... But.
What do you think about the argument between Denmark (and some other nordic countries) and islamic (don't know how to spell it) world about the picture that they published in the newspapers, and all the fuss it has caused?
What do you think about the argument between Denmark (and some other nordic countries) and islamic (don't know how to spell it) world about the picture that they published in the newspapers, and all the fuss it has caused?
I think it's all rather silly, and I don't think any actual action needs to be taken against the publisher in Denmark.
I think, if it offended people of the Islamic faith, that they should do something that would embarrass the offenders, not make threats.
Oh, and yes, this is the right place for this. I don't know if it violates any rules by being religiously oriented though . . .
I think, if it offended people of the Islamic faith, that they should do something that would embarrass the offenders, not make threats.
Oh, and yes, this is the right place for this. I don't know if it violates any rules by being religiously oriented though . . .
We were talking about that in my geography class the other day.
The reasons they're so irate about it are because
A] IT's pretty damn insulting to Islam, and
B] It's against the Islamic faith to show a picture of Mohammed in anything, if you've ever seena ny Islamic religious paintings or anything, it always just has a white spot wreathed in flames where his head should be
The reasons they're so irate about it are because
A] IT's pretty damn insulting to Islam, and
B] It's against the Islamic faith to show a picture of Mohammed in anything, if you've ever seena ny Islamic religious paintings or anything, it always just has a white spot wreathed in flames where his head should be
Why should the rules of their fate aply to us?
I was going to post about this topic the other day.. but to be honest I don't even know how to even approach this one.
On one hand..
Yes the image is insulting to those of Islamic Faith.
Do I feel that those newspapers went about this in the wrong way? Yes!
On the other hand...
Lots of people do things that purposely insult other people, individuals and whole groups. Does that mean you have the right to go out and starting rioting and killing and making irrational demands to those that have no control over the people that made the offense. Absolutely NO! I agree that Islamic countries, if they feel offended, should carry out boycotts and protest against those people that actually offended them. But to start blowing things up and burning buildings(buildings not even owned by the offenders) is the epitome of barbarism. People aren't going to stop thinking about Islam as a terrorist faith until those that proclaim to be the faithful stop acting like it.
So I am on the fence as to how to feel about this. Both sides are at fault and are taking it too far IMO.
Maybe its just my frustration talking, but I am starting to believe that there really is no hope for peace in the Middle East. There are just too many people there(certainly not all of them) that don't want peace. To many immature, for lack of a better word, mentalities that still don't realize you just can't hate and kill everyone that disagrees with your point of view.
On one hand..
Yes the image is insulting to those of Islamic Faith.
Do I feel that those newspapers went about this in the wrong way? Yes!
On the other hand...
Lots of people do things that purposely insult other people, individuals and whole groups. Does that mean you have the right to go out and starting rioting and killing and making irrational demands to those that have no control over the people that made the offense. Absolutely NO! I agree that Islamic countries, if they feel offended, should carry out boycotts and protest against those people that actually offended them. But to start blowing things up and burning buildings(buildings not even owned by the offenders) is the epitome of barbarism. People aren't going to stop thinking about Islam as a terrorist faith until those that proclaim to be the faithful stop acting like it.
So I am on the fence as to how to feel about this. Both sides are at fault and are taking it too far IMO.
Maybe its just my frustration talking, but I am starting to believe that there really is no hope for peace in the Middle East. There are just too many people there(certainly not all of them) that don't want peace. To many immature, for lack of a better word, mentalities that still don't realize you just can't hate and kill everyone that disagrees with your point of view.
Well, though if I were Islamic, I would be offended, but plannings for arson and murder is too much. Some Middle Eastern newspapers have daily comics about killing Isrealites, but when it happens to them, its a double standard. One news paper should be held accountable, not an entire country. I bet there were readers of the newspaper that were offended. I made a Cathloc priest joke to my cousin, and she didn't call for the death of Canada.
Final thought? This is double standered over reaction at its finest.
Final thought? This is double standered over reaction at its finest.
QUOTE(Red @ Feb 4 2006, 05:03 PM)
I made a Cathloc priest joke to my cousin, and she didn't call for the death of Canada.
I, as someone that knows someone that is a quarter catholic is so deeply offended and I am going to come burn down Canada.
I'd suggest you prepare the Royal Mountain Guard
That is stoopid. If we here in america burn't and murdered for that reason alone, their would be nothing left... This is one of those cases where they don't have the balls to stand their grounds and force themselves into petty actions.
You know how many times I've seen my faith (and the leader of the faith) made fun of, insulted, etc etc? To many. Ima start burning down stuff and call it a crusade.
You mean the Royal Canadian Mounted Police? As in one of Canada's oldest law co-ordinators? As in the people who sometimes have the duty as the Prime Minister's bodyguards?
I agree. They act as if the paper showed pictures of burning the Koran or they called for the destruction of the Muslim-American Mosques, but all they really did was make an offensive remark about the religion. I bet there are Muslims who can't believe the amount of trouble this has generated. If this is cause for violence, I hope to god that they don't get South Park in Iraq.
I agree. They act as if the paper showed pictures of burning the Koran or they called for the destruction of the Muslim-American Mosques, but all they really did was make an offensive remark about the religion. I bet there are Muslims who can't believe the amount of trouble this has generated. If this is cause for violence, I hope to god that they don't get South Park in Iraq.
QUOTE(Neela @ Feb 4 2006, 09:57 PM)
Maybe its just my frustration talking, but I am starting to believe that there really is no hope for peace in the Middle East. There are just too many people there(certainly not all of them) that don't want peace. To many immature, for lack of a better word, mentalities that still don't realize you just can't hate and kill everyone that disagrees with your point of view.
That's an oversimplification.
Do you think those people are really raving over this because they're so deeply offended because of one singular incident? You have to remember most of these people have nothing. They don't have any wealth, they don't see any future for themselves. What they see is the West, us, invading one country after another in the area, trying to tell everyone there what to do or think. First Iraq, soon probably Iran, and now this?
The fun part is this caricature has been around for several months without anyone noticing. The publishers of that newspaper noticed that and called several radical organizations for statements. These organizations then sent word to the middle east about this and did some serious agitizing there. As I read the story, it took a lot of doing to get the situation to where it is now, both on the part of the newspaper as well as certain organizations that managed to use this situation to their benefit.
But the common people on the street? They're just pissed off because they think everyone here seems to hate and belittle them. They're being manipulated and agitated.
That kind of makes my point...
I agree they are being manipulated and agitated by those that wish to inflame hatred and war. If they can be so moved to violence so easily over an issue such as cartoon caricatures, how do they ever hope to have any lasting peace? There is always going to be groups that will desire continued bloodshed. All these groups seem to need is any spark of controversy to ignite discontent. Free and peaceful societies are pretty much constantly drenched in controversial material.
Those that are rioting need to realize that there is a way of dealing things without picking up a gun/torch and taking their anger out on the nearest person that disagrees with you.
I agree they are being manipulated and agitated by those that wish to inflame hatred and war. If they can be so moved to violence so easily over an issue such as cartoon caricatures, how do they ever hope to have any lasting peace? There is always going to be groups that will desire continued bloodshed. All these groups seem to need is any spark of controversy to ignite discontent. Free and peaceful societies are pretty much constantly drenched in controversial material.
Those that are rioting need to realize that there is a way of dealing things without picking up a gun/torch and taking their anger out on the nearest person that disagrees with you.
QUOTE(Neela @ Feb 9 2006, 01:58 PM)
That kind of makes my point...
I agree they are being manipulated and agitated by those that wish to inflame hatred and war. If they can be so moved to violence so easily over an issue such as cartoon caricatures, how do they ever hope to have any lasting peace? There is always going to be groups that will desire continued bloodshed. All these groups seem to need is any spark of controversy to ignite discontent. Free and peaceful societies are pretty much constantly drenched in controversial material.
Those that are rioting need to realize that there is a way of dealing things without picking up a gun/torch and taking their anger out on the nearest person that disagrees with you.
I agree they are being manipulated and agitated by those that wish to inflame hatred and war. If they can be so moved to violence so easily over an issue such as cartoon caricatures, how do they ever hope to have any lasting peace? There is always going to be groups that will desire continued bloodshed. All these groups seem to need is any spark of controversy to ignite discontent. Free and peaceful societies are pretty much constantly drenched in controversial material.
Those that are rioting need to realize that there is a way of dealing things without picking up a gun/torch and taking their anger out on the nearest person that disagrees with you.
I'm afraid you missed my point
What I was trying to say was that to them (the masses), it's exactly not just this caricature. It's a whole series of what they consider attacks on them, a series of hostile actions. To them, this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back.
QUOTE(stargelman @ Feb 9 2006, 08:18 AM)
I'm afraid you missed my point What I was trying to say was that to them (the masses), it's exactly not just this caricature. It's a whole series of what they consider attacks on them, a series of hostile actions. To them, this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back.
What I was trying to say was that to them (the masses), it's exactly not just this caricature. It's a whole series of what they consider attacks on them, a series of hostile actions. To them, this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back.You know what? Thats not fair to the rest of the world then.
I don't like Canada, France, or Uzbekistan (Cause I can't find it on the map...) for different reasons. And I bet, no infact promise, that there are many other nations and peoples that do not like the USA.
The simple thing is, is that if we as Humans cannot get over such little things, and focus on real BIG things such as, but not limited too, poverty, disease, HIV-AIDS (Deserves its own topic aside from disease), starvation, over-population, suppressors of freedom.. etc.
I'm more for dealing with the problems in the US first before we start policing the world, but EVERYONE needs to take a look at all these countries. Iraq has a dictator problem... BOOM! Everyone fix it, Somolia is losing thousands of people daily to war, aids, malnutrition.. wabam! Start a coalition of the caring.
However, I fear I waiste my breath when I state such things only because lots agree, but few take action. I'm guilty of that, your guilty of that, our countries are guilty of that...
So what are you going to do about it?
(And please don't say march on washington....)
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