So what is the situation on forced reloads? We seem to have quotes from the great Rane and the great Stargazey.as wel as many other kind of great people. A thread would be good to clear this up.

From what I have read, it is infact forced. there was a bug that allowed you to skip the window and continue playing, but it has been fixed.

that's all i know.

well I think it stinks, but oh well, what can you do?

Yeah.

Morrowind's way of dealing with it was PERFECT.

You tell the player he broke something, if he chooses to ignore this, then so be it. By doing do you void the "umbrella seller about how the game's broken" policy...

Personally, I think forced reloading is a good idea. You have to consider that if you've never touched the main quest, you've got 300+ hours of gameplay, and a level 50 character, but you suddenly decide you want to do the main quest, you've got to make a new character. Though that's not why it was implimented, that's one advantage.

The one thing that I'm pissed about though is the 'icon' that tells you if they're related to the main quest or not. It seems like a huge, in-game spoiler to me, but I have faith in Bethesda Game Studios.

Morrowind TOLD you when you killed someone important.

So, you knew when you broke the game, and that you'd NEVER finish the mainquest. If someone ignores that, then well, they got what they deserved.

Beth shouldn't have to mess up the game to make it idiot-proof.

you should be able to kill whoever you want.

maybe allow you to click "no i don't wanna reload!!"

Yes, you're right, it did tell you, but that doesn't mean you'll pay attention. In the end it can only work out to your advantage, and as many wise men have stated, if not being able to kill 0.00001% of the game's NPCs is this big of an issue, I can only imagine what you'd do if they decided not to impliment mounts.

I like some degree of immersion and realism. Mounts i don't miss as much as the ability to cut down a guy without getting reverted to a previous save as if this man was some godly extension of Akatosh who can throw back in the past for attacking him...

Needless to say that was a very wonderful feature in morrowind, I never corrupted any of my 7 files when I went on mass murderous rages. If your gonna kill someone important, then please save before it. That was the logic. Now its, well its no fun to play in a world where you can't beat the MAIN QUEST.

How many really beat the MQ right away?

Hmm... Well, I'm not sure what my stance is on this force reload, because I'm not entirely sure how it works (like, can you kill the main quest peoples after finishing the main quest?).

In a way, I do not like this forced reload. As long as I get a warning that I will not be able to finish the Main Quest or whatever, then I'm fine with that. But, being forced to re-load sounds annoying, but I'll have to wait and play the game before judging it.

Anyway, my sister and I like to go on killing sprees. After all, isn't the game about freedom to do what you want? Well, I like to go on random killing sprees. I would kill anyone anytime, especially if they are annoying or give me really dumb rewards for frustrating quests or give me stupid quests (like that woman wanting that stupid ring from the pond).

I do not really like the plots of the Main Quest anyway, both in Morrowind and Oblivion, and I doubt I would want to finish it. (I'm really interested in factions/Guilds quests). Oblivion's plot sounds too... boring and political, as well as limiting (I mean, demons invading = I have to save the day, right?) my freedom.

Basically, I want my killing sprees (with some warning), but I want to choose to keep these people dead without re-loading! Unless I'm doing Necromancy, I want these people to stay dead... and never return.

The thing is though, many NPC files rely on said quest NPCs, so if you killed Johnnyimportent, JoeyreliesonJohnnyimportent would become corrupt, creating broken game texts and situations that would destroy the plot. Anyways, I don't like forced reloading but I understand why its in there and can live with it.

I think there should be an option to turn it off in the options menu, get the best of both worlds. You could just turn it off and go on a killing spree, so long as a warning comes up if you killed a plot important person.

I liked how MW did it. It was a nice big ol' message in the screen. That way I could go and kill half of Vvardenfell and then wait through a 50,000,000 hour load time.

We'll see who likes and dislikes the Forced Reloads when you decide to begin the main quest as at level eighty. ^_~

Like I said, if not being able to kill 40/1000 NPCs aggrivates you to this extent, why bother playing the game to begin with? You'll be better off with a nice copy of Halo 2. And anyway, killing sprees are a waste of time. Ever notice that when you're done with them, the world around you seems a bit lonely?

If I hadn't made it abundantly clear, I'm very glad that they've implimented forced reloads. A person who says those who ignore the warning deserve what they get are hypocrites. A person who's upset about not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs has the maturity of a ten year old. Thank you, goodnight.

well I must say you have a point. Realy the only reason I kill people is becuse I would like the weapon/armor they have on. And I liked the lvl 80 statement

I personally dislike forced reload. It doesn't matter to me much because I generally don't kill main chars. But having a little choice would be nice. Morrowind's method of telling you was perfect, If you wanted to play the game the way you wanted to fine, not every player is going to go around killing important PC's then go "THIS SUCKS!" and not start a new file and the ones that do should really be shot because it warned them it would be boring and impossible to finish.

Which is why I say there shouldn't be the forced re-load. Besides, I probably will never get to level 80. Real life gets in the way too much. So far, I do not really like the plot of Oblivion so far. Unless the 9 Divines or the Daedric(sp?) Princes show up, I'm not interested in being forced to play the MQ.



Er, in Morrowind (on PC), it's called CS. If people using X-Box choose to do killing sprees, maybe they should have an extra save or something?



I still like the ability to choose at least. If I wanted to RP a merciless vampire who hates a certain NPC, I would like the choice to kill him/her. Especially if it's an annoying person whose quest I will probably never do.

I do not like Halo/Halo 2, because they are not my kind of game. Morrowind was my kind of game: includes the ability to RP whoever we want (mostly anyway) and still have that 'merciless killing spree' like GTA. Killing sprees are nice, because if I feel stressed out one day, then I want to be able to relax and not worry about any quests. (Besides, who says I'm going to save right after a killing spree?)

Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Arena are about RPing whoever we want, no? I mean, we can turn into bloodthirsty vampires/werewolves. Why not crazy assassins?

That's what I loved so much about Morrowind: Unlike other RPG's, you actually have a choice to become what evil-ish.

Yes yes, indeed, it's all about rp'ing whatever the hell you want. Personally I didn't like Halo/2 I belive it to be the scourge of the Earth and an extremely over-hyped game that is nothing more than just a generic shooter.

Aren't you the dude that almost went crazy over the fall of the empire thing?

Anyways, if you haven't SAVED before you made it to level 80 then you are a fool to begin with... Think about that. You will have a save game prob not more then an hour before that.. So yes if you do kill someone you weren't supposed to and say you do accidently click play on IT WOULD STILL HAVE THE SAME AFFECT...

(A..

You kill some important dude in the MQ and then the message pops up telling you, you have to reload. So you do and go back to your last reload.

(B..

You kill some important dude in the MQ and then the message pops up telling you, you have to reload. You click continue and keep on killing, when you reload you go back to your last save game.

Same exact thing

It doesn't matter either way, but in the last choice at least you get more freedom to do what you want to do...

Do you want Beth to make the game Idiot proof?

Obviosuly for dakirai. [/flame]


Wow, mergirl...I agree with every single word you say.

Anybody who is stupid enough to say "I wonder what that message means... too bad I'm an illiterate moron" while they defecate on the emperor's dead body then later finds they can't beat the main quest and then blames it on the game's "glitchy-ness" really shouldn't be playing Oblivion and should go off and try some more linear game not meant for the purpose of Rp'ing, either that... or suicide... I know I'd consider it if I found myself to be that stupid.

Tis why Beth doesnt need to make it idiot proof...

Your idea of 'crazy' and mine are completely differnent. I come from forums where every other word is four letters long and starts with "f". If not for the fact that Rane had sent me a warning, I'd probably be banned now. But if you're holding that incident against me, then I'm wasting my time here.



If a person saved their character at level fourty, why would they keep that game file at level sixty? It's redundant and unnessasary; no one wants to play as a weak character if a higher character is optional. So no, it wouldn't "STILL HAVE THE SAME AFFECT".



-and it saves you the trouble of having to make a new character later, at no cost other than not being able to kill 30 or so NPCs. Bravo, Bethesda, bravo!




This idea is impossible. I'll explain why in a second.



Yes, actually, I do. At least, I do if the only trade off is having to reload upon the death of a few NPCs. And, idiot proof is a harsh term. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, and mistakes are how we learn. Once we've learned, it's not worth having to make an entirely new character to complete the quest. Having to create a new character isn't freedom, which you seem to be obsessed with.

Something you seem to be forgetting though is the fact that the forced reloading isn't there for us; without it, the Radiant AI system would crash. I'm just being optimistic; and I find forced reloading convenient.

On a final note; Mer Girl, about 95% of the freedom offered by TES, you'll never use. I feel that most people simply like it because it's there, despite the fact that it's unused. There's no point in getting your panties in a wad over fourty NPCs.

EDIT: And, you're [/flame]ing me because of my views and optimism? See, this is what I meant by "maturity of a ten year old".

Yes well... scathing self important rants aside you do you learn not to kill a certain quest important character when you killed them on Morrowind.... I belive that's what the message was for... Bethsoft doesn't need to take you by the hand and go "No no" I'm sure people are quite capable of making the distinction between game-breaking decisions and non game-breaking decsions by themselves without being forced by the devs.

Omg dude, come on.. Your acting like you don't save your game but twice during its whole entire span.

I play for two hours and then save, get off and eat or do something else. The next day I start up the save game, play for several more hours, save, and go on with my life. repeat that process like 1000+ times and I might have a level 80 character..

Now with that level eighty character, I would have probobly saved over that same file... 999 times, with the expection of when I just felt like killing eveyrone I could so..

I had my main file for my game, and then the extra file for doing whatever I feel like.

Do you not ever close down games? Or save for that matter? The way your talking is that you only save like twice in your life...O_o

Here here channler, that's exactly why reloading shouldn't be forced. We actually have backups! If we want to continue playing in a doomed world so be it. Later we can just go back and load to where we were in the main quest (if we haven't finished it). This leads me to wonder do quest important people become unimportant after the completely fulfill their roles in Oblivion?

So, 'immaturity' turns me into a hypocrite.

Huh.

I was sure being hypocritical did that. In this case, by, you know, bitching about the game being ruined because i ignored the warning i so value and am not stuck.

But that isn't the case, is it? Didn't think so.

I'm not upset over not being able to kill 20 or so NPCs. But i am highly annoyed the realism is damaged by having these guys who cannot die without me being reloaded. I mean, thats so realistic.


A message warning someone is enough. If someone can't figure out that the print on the screen says "YOU KILLED A IMPORTANT PERSON AND NOW CANNOT COMPLETE THE GAME. RELOAD A PREVIOUS SAVE OR CONTINUE IN THIS DOOMED WORLD!!" then they really shouldn't be playing a TES game. As they have the intellect of a sack of wet potatoes.

That's exactly my point from before. The horrendously stupid really shouldn't be playing it if their going to ignore a warning like that.

oh well give a moder group a few months or something and they will have produced the most downloaded mod in Oblivion

Like I said before, the Forced Reloading isn't there for us. Without it, the game would crash. I just find it convenient.

Now then, perhapes you do learn not to kill them, but like I implied, accidents happen, and the only sacrafice for the new insurrance policy is not being able to kill a few NPCs. Fact is, you're not even upset about that- you're throwing a hissy fit because you don't get the unused, unnessasary freedom. Despite the fact that you have thousands of other NPCs to kill, the ones related to the main quest are the ones whom you want to gut. Convenient, no?



Who ever said anything about me? I have no desire to go on pointless killing sprees, and I'd prefer not to have to start a new game due to an accident. Dude.



And let's say that during one of those two hour periods, you kill an important NPC, you ignore/don't see the warning message, you save, and you don't want to eat. When you come back you think to yourself "Mmmm, main quest time!" You're screwed.



The key word there is 'over'. If you save over a game where you kill an important NPC, you're screwed. Case closed.



Once again, I haven't brought my personal game playing preference of life (besides supporting forced reloads) even once. Don't make it about me. It's not about me.



Aki, you're probably the only person on this forum I have any respect for. Don't ruin it.



Ask yourself; when are you ever actually going to kill them, anyway? Why would you want to, when you could just as easily go on a civilian rampage? And since when are TES games about realism? Unless you're Catholic, the idea of shooting balls of ice from your finger tips and the gates of Oblivion opening are going to seem pretty unrealistic.



Or, maybe they just have a short attention span, or decided to take a pee right after their kill? Honestly, I view this as an insurance policy; at no cost besides not being able to kill a few people. Big. Fewking. Deal.

And don't speak as if TES players are high and mighty beyond all other gamers. I get the same bull on World of Warcraft; playing a certain game doesn't make you a smarter, better, or more valuable person.



Read my last paragraph.

no offence but thats why you ar sopposeto have multiple saves...

Why are you so opposed to not being able to kill 20 or so people?

Anyway, it's confusing. I'm the kind of person who names all his files "aaaaaaa" and "nfiwnwenfiwen". And when you've accidently killed an NPC and decide to reload an old file, I often wonder what "nfiwnwenfiwen" means.

I'm also big on organization and neatness. I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to play a game if the character's hair is blonde; and in Morrowind, I can't wear a suit of Daedric armor unless I have the full suit. I'm just weird about organization, neatness, and having everything just right. Multiple saves: NOT RIGHT.

no I'm not opposed to not killing 20 poeple, the only reason I would kill them is for the armor/weapon they have or ,like Vivec, there souls. I have multiple saves, they are something like George 1, George 2, George 3, and then George help for when I do something stupid. I'm not diagreing with you idea I just meant that most people have more then one sav, just incase you screw something up in one od them.

I think the forced relond thing will be a inconvenience but i'm not completely against it.

I kill main Quest people all the time. They're the only people worth killing. They have personality, history. I don't sensely murder. When i kill a NPC i have a reason.

Thusly, the only NPCs i kill besides those who are already hostile (IE. Bandits and such), are quest NPCs.

I remeber making a character for the explicite purpose of slaying every important NPC. She was The Hunter, and basically, had a very Hircine-esque logic. Find and hunt the most important and powerful beings in the land. And i did just that. Much more fun that pointless slaughter.

I know its a fantasy game. But i find getting my boat knocked into the past (AKA; a previous save..) because i killed the Heir unrealistic. No way to explain that in lore. Unless of course, people are buying insurance policies from Akatosh now.

I doubt one could miss the warning. Make the game momentarily pause and tell you this. You can hit 'Reload' or 'Continue'.



?

Expalin this. I've never heard of this.

Ah, yes. A developer (I forget which one exactly, MrSmileyFaceDude perhapes, but you could probably find it in the quotes section of the homepage) stated that NPCs related to the main quest were somehow vital to the Radiant AI system, and that their death would cause the game to crash.

So no, the Forced reloading isn't meant to make the game idiot proof; it's nessasary for the game to exist.

EDIT: Eh, I really can't argue with your last post, Aki. Still though, Radiant AI will make the NPCs unrelated to quests seem less dull. I hope. And I'd take Radiant AI and an insurance policy over the ability to kill a few NPCs ANY day.

This time I actually think I'll want to be doing the main quest, actually, which might be another reason I'm into the idea. I dunno, though; I'm just being optimistic.

..Dense?

Again, if you don't read the message after you kill someone important then your a idiot..

Nuff said, I'm waiting for a mod to come close this down.

Or maybe you chose to ignore it at the time, and 200 hours of gameplay later, you're wishing you hadn't.

I agree though, Rane needs to come along and close this. I don't much like being ganged up on for my personal opinions.

Huh...thats weird. Why the hell would a death of a important NPC cause a crash.

Weird.

Right, the forced reload is still in. So killing an essential NPC will bring up the reload screen and there is no way to skip it.

Now, seeing as the original question was answered (and by the looks of this thread) I think it's safe to say that this thread has served its purpose and can be locked.

But before that I'll throw in the post MSFD made about the forced reload.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=141364


Now, it doesn't seem like the game would crash if an essential NPC dies, but obviously a lot of the quests where the NPC was involved will be broken and the player might encounter some bugs.

Anyway, I'm quite positive that sooner or later there will be a user-made mod for the PC that will disable the forced reload but obviously that won't help those on the 360 in any way.