Maybe I could have used another thread for this but I wanted to discuss it more in-depth so here we go


Something odd happened today when Lothran was walking around Bravil while equipped with one of these bows, I noticed his walking pace was a tad slower than normal. At first I ignored it and tried to shake it off but the feeling wouldn´t go away and I could swear something was off. I had to investigate this further so I hotkeyed the Black Bow and one other weapon and switched back and forth while Lothran was walking and true enough, there is a slight slowing-down effect when he has the Black Bow equpped!

Has anyone else noticed this?

Interesting find! I've never noticed, and I've had more than one character who used a Black Bow.

Is a Black Bow heavy armor then? That is weird.

Maybe someone could find something in the CS?

How odd is that! I'd say SR nailed it, probably heavy armor. If Lothran's skill in heavy armor is low it would def make a difference.

No I can't say I ever noticed this before. Saga occasionally carries a black bow, I'll try equipping and unequipping one of these next time I see her.

But how could it count as heavy armour when it´s a weapon?

It shouldn't be able to be counted as armor. But Heavy Armor is the only thing I can think of that arbitrarily slows you down.

Yeah, it´s a good thought. Can it be confirmed? It´s no biggie but I wanna know

You mentioned comparing walking speed with other weapons equipped, then switching to BB. Have you tried switching to other bows as well? Just looking to narrow things down.

I don't know how in the world a weapon could be counted as heavy armor though. I know how to switch armor between heavy and light in the CS, but how a non-armor item can act as armor is beyond me. When I asked ghastley once about modding to change clothing to armor (or armor to clothing), his answer led me to quickly toss it in the 'too hard' box.

One of life's mysteries?

I didn´t try other bows but I have never noticed a change when Lothran has used them. Only with the BB.

Strange stuff this is, indeed

I'm sorry to say this, mirocu, but Lohtran is aging. He's not so young anymore and of course he can't walk so fast if you put a bow on his back. Soon there'll be times when he'll have to warm his arthritic feet every evening in warm water, imagine how slow will he walk then.

Well, he does have white hair

Snaaty has a black bow. I tried having him carry it, and then not carry it. Removed it from his inventory, and put it back in. I don't see a change in his speed at all, so it sounds like you've got some sort of rare quirk.

Edit: Do you mean 'equipped' like he's actually carrying the bow in his hand? Okay, I see a slowing-down effect now, but I thought it was this way with all bows?

I mean equipped as in the bow being on his back, not just in his inventory and not in his hand

oH okay. Well no difference then in my game, the only diff I see is when Snaaty is actually carrying a bow in his hand.

Maybe your game is broken, Crow. Go send Bethesda a rantmail, try to get your money back.

The difference is very minor, perhaps you just didn´t notice it?


*sends rantmail*

Heavy Armor is just a term, it is how the weight penalty is determined based on the weight of each piece of armor - well, weapons weigh differently too. A hammer that weighs 100 will slow a player down significantly when they are used to carrying an under 20 pound dagger or short sword.

(and of course going armed always slows the player down no matter the weapon)

I think mALX is right. I also recall that using fatigue mods will increase the penalty for Burden especially when you get close to the PC's weight limit.

So what you´re saying is since I´m used to Lothran carrying very little stuff around that´s why I noticed the difference?

Technically, I don't knowhow much he carries around usually; so I'll use Maxical VS an Orc skilled in heavy armor as examples. Maxical has never even broken novice in Heavy armor, and the weight of all her weapons combined never is over 30 pounds TOPS. So if she carries one 20-40 pound weapon she really feels it. It makes her probably as slow as if she had gone armed with any light weapon.

VS

An Orc skilled in heavy armor is not slowed by an armor of 250-300 pounds plus a hammer weighing 100 pounds - that's why it is good to either build up both light and heavy armor (I've never been able to do it, can't stand the slow down heavy armor gives) - or stick with your weight class, and that includes your weapons - which is what I've always done.

If you want a good bow that is light, use a conjured bow (Daedric, ignores armor resistance) - and it weighs ZERO!

Lothran usually carries around about 50 (?) but his Strength is 100.

Well, I guess I have to accept the bow as Heavy Armour then. Seems we don´t get any further anyway now

My curiosity did eventually get the better of me, and I looked them up in the CS. There are no scripts attached to it that could be causing it. It is essentially a Steel Bow with a different name, but actually weighs a few pounds less. Go figure. Of course as it has been pointed out, you cannot set it to be heavy or light or no armor in the CS, because as a weapon, those categories don't exist for it.

Strange. It was obvious enough for me to notice and when I experimented with it the difference in Lothran´s walking speed was indisputable. But still there is no explanation for it

Well, you won't have to send that rantmail, mirocu. Yesterday me and my little one took a little field trip to Bethesda's studios, which are about a half hour south from where we live. Managed to get inside the place. Got past security by claiming I had lost my paycheck; "No I'm not a programmer, I'm one of the cleaners," I said. Hey, it actually worked! .. Took awhile, but eventually we found the big guy's offices: yep, Todd Howard and Pete Hines. Stepped right up and said "LOOK ... I demand money back for my friend mirocu's game!!! yeah that's right the mirocu, the one who's got one of the longest-lasting; characters in TES4 history!!! His game is broken. His character moves slightly slower with a black bow in hand now FIX this, goshdarnit!"

Well. Suffice it to say, this didn't go well. Not only was I arrested and handcuffed in front of my own daughter, but we didn't get your money back. Sorry. On the plus side, I happen to know which game Bethesda is working on.

Did they send you to the old Civil War prisoner of war camp at Point Lookout?

Once again you managed to crack us up, Renee. And you didn´t even had to write about one of your characters!

If they'd known it was really you, they'd have used electrical tape, instead.

Renee! I have this crystal clear vision of Todd Howard calling for security, quickly followed by the door busting down to reveal two armored Legion soldiers: "STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!"

That's a Crystal Beth version to you, lol. OMG, Renee had me rolling! That made my day !!!

Awesomeness. Yeah, I can see Todd and Pete saying "STOP RIGHT THERE!" Good one, Acadian!

Back on topic (kinda) I gotta just say that I'm with Lady Saga now. She's got several bows on her horse: a black bow, a silver bow (gotta have silver), a Bow of Scorching (10 pts. fire damage), and a silver crossbow (mod). I like this variety. The crossbow is great for shorter-range attacks and packs a mean punch, while the other bows are easier to aim

Open question to all: What are your characters current bow choices, assuming you're playing Oblivion and have an archer?

Nocturnal's Bow of Shadows, until I had to give it back to Cyndil. Part of my mod as seen here - it's a retextured silver bow with some neat enchantments.

Shadowhunt, and I have one I custom enchanted that is nice - I think it is silver too. Maxical doesn't carry a bow often, or hit her target often with a bow either, but there are times when even she will carry one.

A self-enchanted Elven bow which does Shock damage.



Btw, thanks for (sort of) getting back on topic, Renee. You´ve shown great character improvement

I'm pretty sure if I keep getting back on topic my Speechcraft skill will finally rise.