Behold this load...

Dawnguard Waffle...

Sooooo, who's betting that the others will wind up going out of the window too?... ...

My only ray of light in this is that it took ages to get the Fallout 3 DLCs out for the PS3 too...We'll see...And no, I'm still not desperate for DG, but when I read the report out to the kids, they were gutted and expressed the same "But what about the others?" concern...

From reading that, it does not sound like Bethesda has made any new statements about Dawnguard on the PS3. Their only quote is from an unnamed admin on the official Beth forums, which is not very official at all. It just looks like a rehash of what we have already known for months. So I would not let it deflate you too much.

Not that I expect Dawnguard to be out on PS3 before Hearthfire is out on X-box mind you. Or anytime soon at all. Have you thought about buying an X-box? Renee says the Kinect works really well with Skyrim.

That’s my reaction, too. What about the others?

I thought they might have reached the point of diminishing returns from the tone of the previous lack-of-news update. Personally I’d rather not have the Dawnguard DLC than have it make the whole game unplayable. It must be pretty bad to make them turn down revenue. Hopefully each release will be treated independently, rather than just ending things for PS3 customers.


EDIT: Here's the post from Gstaff: Link

They can't do anything about the need to port the code. It's not just a question of waiting for the Microsoft embargo period to expire and releasing something that already exists, which is what everybody seems to be assuming.

This one looks like "Oops, we wrote something that the PS3 can't do, how the !@#$ do we port that?"

Right, and at some point it makes sense to stop pouring resources into a project. I don’t know anything about code, but I recognize the kind of thing I used to say (in my previous life as Employed) before announcing that a project was closed, and we’re moving on. Of course I hope I’m being unusually pessimistic this time!

I guess I come from a different workplace culture, because I have always worked in places where excuses do not fly. You make a commitment, and you meet it, whatever it takes. Failure is not acceptable.

It is true that the PS3 is more difficult to code than the other platforms. Sony has come out and said that they have made it this way on purpose. But Bethesda knows this. This is not the first game that Bethesda has made for the PS3. They know what they are committed to do. If they are having issues with timing, then they simply need to put more people on the project to get it done sooner.

One of the basics of project management is that you have three variables: Cost, Time, and Resources. All are linked to one another. You can shorten the time by adding more cost and resources. Or you can reduce the cost by extending the Time and/or Resources. Etc... I believe that the bottom line is not the difficulty, but rather that Bethesda does not want to spend the money to bring in the necessary amount of Resources to get the job done on time. That and that they do not want to spend the money to hire Resources that are qualified to do the work to begin with. They are going cheap, and it shows.

If Bethesda does not want to make the effort to release the game on the PS3, then they should simply not release the game on the PS3. Bethesda seems to want the dollars from PS3 sales, but they are unwilling to spend the dollars to make the product in the first place.

How tragic! Dawnguard was the first ES DLC I was most excited for, and now I can't have it because of computer issues? I feel just as bad as I did when I found out PS3 users could not have the Vile Lair for Oblivion.

Seriously, it is getting very annoying. I understand they are trying their best, but Subrosa made some valid points.

Developers of Bethesda, if you do not give us Dawnguard, I will personally escort all of you to the gates of Oblivion.

I hope you all don't kick me when I say just get an Xbox. If you don't wanna go all the way to PC, just get an Xbox. It's worth it if you love this game as much as I do. I would get crucified over at Bethsoft for saying that; I'm not trying for that to happen here. Please?

I've been there: gaming with a PS3, that is. And I intuited the PS3 would get less content, since this is what happend with Oblivion. It would get less content, longer waits for updates, and the game was not made for PS3. Folks can get angry about this, and threaten to sue Bethesda (not you guys....the folks in the Bethsoft/PS3 forums), but it won't make any difference.

So the choice becomes: do I stay on the PS3? Waiting and waiting for something that might not happen? Or do I switch to some other system? Xbox is cheap nowadays! The answer was obvious for me. Plus, my PS3 is almost 4 years old. I use it for Netflix and a few other assorted purposes, and I don't wanna drive it to death gaming 3 or 4 times a week: 2 hours or more per session.

Concerning Kinect: I'm gonna tell you guys the good stuff and the bad. For me, it's mostly good, but I will outline the cons as well as the pros. Sorry that I'm going off topic. I figure if anyone wants to spend the extra money, they should know the good and the bad.

Pros:
1). Menu-diving is cut down A LOT, especially for characters who have lots of spells, items, weapons (etc.) they switch constantly.

2). PS3 get 2 hotkeys, PC gets 8, but an Xbox with Kinect gets 2 hotkeys AND in the neighborhood of 50 commands for weapons, spells, and items. I'm not sure how many, I've never actually counted. But instead of clicking a series of buttons to equip your next weapon or spell (etc.) all I gotta do is say "Equip Daggar", and it's DONE!

3). These commands are interchangable, which means the player sets them by assigning them. They are not pre-set from the factory. This means if you run out of commands (especially for spells), it is possible to say "Equip Mace" if you want to actually equip a Light spell. As long as you assign the spell as "Equip Mace", you can apply whatever you want. It does not actually have to be a mace that's equipped.

4). Saving can be accomplished by saying "Quick-Save". Say Quicksave, and it's DONE. Takes like 3 or 4 seconds, with absolutely zero button mashes. This is a blessing because saving on the PS3 takes awhile. I sometimes still save the old-fashioned way, though, just 'cuz I can. There is also "Quick-Load" and a few other assorted commands like this.

5). Shouts and potions can also be commanded. These are all interchangable, too.

6). To get your follower to follow you, just say "Ally Follow". Want him or her to stay behind? "Ally Wait". FOllowers will follow your PC from anywhere in a dungeon, assuming both the PC and the follower are in the same level. If the PC is outside, I think there's a 50 foot range (there abouts) for this command. If you get too far away from the follower, they can no longer "hear" us. But it is frickin' cool going thru an entire dungeon level while the follower waits way back at the entrance, calling for the follower, and then magically they eventually come running up to the PC, sometimes after a minute or two. Never gets old!

7)> There is also "Ally Trade", "Ally Stand", and a few other conveniences.


I could go on and on...but let's do the Cons.

1). You can't have a lot of background noise going, otherwise, the Kinect may get confused, or not be able to hear you. I have seen it equip a Healing Potion when I was simply trying to equip a sword, for instance, which means I tried to equip a sword but the Kinect couldn't hear me, so now the PC is drinking a heal potion. If you're a gamer like me, who opens her door when it's raining hard outside, you might have to SHOUT to be heard by the Kinect, as there's now a lot of background noise going on due to the rain.

2). Some folks may not like "talking" while they game. I get this. I'm a talker, though, even before I got Kinect, I've been in the habit of constantly talking (voicing my character) as I game. I manage to work Kinect into my talking.

3). Most of the time when I am voicing my character (not commanding the Kinect) it will not affect the game. At worst, the Kinect will want me to "Try again", but it will not actually command anything. But there are those rare times when it will think I'm commanding it. This usually doesn't bother me, but it might for some of you.

All of the above can be fixed to a degree if the Kinect device is next to the player. I have my Kinect sitting on a small end table next to my bed/cozy chair area. As I'm gaming, it's near me at all times. I do this so I can speak in a low, conversational tone (rather than shout). But there are still a few times when I have to shout!

Overall, it's a bargain. It's a mad jump in technology! For me, this technology-jump is the equivalent of being a kid again, when the Atari 2600 came out. This meant we no longer had to save/spend quarters, waiting all day for some other kid to get off Miss Pac Man, and trying to avoid potential Arcade Bullies.

Thank you. /mega-text.

Ummm...I actually had this "Buy an X-Box" conversation with my brother the other day...He suggested I get one so as to play these DLCs...And as my wife said, the instant I told her...Yeah, and all the characters we're attatched to on the PS3 get left behind...Which was closely followed by "And that will cost how much exactly?"...Just checking now...£200-ish for the console...£40 for the game and what £15 for Dawnguard and £5 for Hearthfire...

Aaand then it's which game do we buy for which console in the future?...

Naah...We'll just put up with the lack of DLC before we go that way...Though I will admit the others here love the game a hell of a lot more than me...

And the kids'd love the new toy, just 'cause they're kids... ...

Buuut...No, I won't kick you for saying it... ...

Considering the entire slew of problems that Skyrim on the PS3 has been having already, I'm not entirely surprised at this development. On one hand, I'm annoyed at Bethesda on behalf of PS3 users, but on the other, I kind of understand; considering how ferociously complex a piece of software Skyrim is going to be, if you have large chunks of code (and by large, I'm talking tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of lines) and no apparent, easy solution for the problems they are facing within them, porting for the PS3 would not necessarily be an economically viable option considering the time and resources that would be poured into it. As in, they may not be able to recoup enough money spent on the problem solving from people buying it, so there's no point wasting resources on fixing it when it's not worth their while.

What should be noted, however, is that the head of Bethsoft's PR did tweet: "yes, it just doesn't perform well in all scenarios. Some folks would be fine, some would not." (source) That suggests to me that Bethesda are at least part of the way to a solution, so I think it would be a bit premature to suggest that Dawnguard is a complete write-off just at this moment.

Also, Saga, at risk of sounding prickly, an Xbox is pretty damn expensive, after all. The solution of 'just buy an Xbox with Kinect' doesn't sound quite so viable when it's rephrased as 'just spend ~£250' (accounting for Xbox, Kinect, copy of Skyrim and the cost of Dawnguard). Edit: And I got Ninjaed by McBadgere, just then...

And, I realise that I used the word 'viable' one hell of a lot in that post...

...

Oh yeah!!... ...

Sorry 'bout that...

Happily we already have an Xbox (it was a gift from awesome friends), but Kinect will have to wait for Christmas. Someone better ask for it. I’ve already been dropping hints.

The problems with the PS3 are something Bethesda likely knew about during development because of the similar issues that occurred with Fallout 3 and New Vegas. They tried to brush it off, but unfortunately given the announcement, it's become pretty clear that the PS3 version of Skyrim is quite hosed.

This may be an issue of the engine being terminally incompatible with the PS3's hardware, in which case, there will be no fix possible because the only way TO fix it would be an all-new engine (which the Creation Engine is definitely not). That would require years of work, and probably would never happen at all. In which case, the only option left for Bethesda would be a formal apology and refunds for disgruntled PS3 owners trading in their games. But neither option leaves much to stand for. The damage will have been done and Bethesda's reputation with the PlayStation owners will never recover.

The final reasonable option on the table for Bethesda is to swallow their pride and ask for someone who has experience in game engine programming to come into the office and get their engine in order. Their in-house programmers have been given enough time to resolve this and they have failed. Time to call the experts and see what they have to say.

Seriously though, I do not feel like paying $50 a year for xbox live. That's just me though.

You only have to do that if you plan on playing multiplayer.

There are also different levels of X-Box Live, with different pricing. I remember looking it up when Renee was thinking about buying an X-Box. I recall there is a free version of XBL, and I think it gives you patches and things like that.

Colonel & McBadgere: The Xbox is cheap compared to buying a full-scale PC, that's what I was meaning to say. I can't justify spending over a thousand dollars for a new computer (that will only be used for gaming) when an Xbox costs less than half this. I also can't justify dealing with the headaches of getting all that stuff set up, winding up with the wrong hardware, dealing with CTD's, Steam, etc. I probably could budget a new PC, but with a kid to feed, I can't justify it.

Buying an Xbox costs half the possible PC price. Actually, my breakdown went something like:

Xbox console $299.99
Kinect Bundle: $99.00
Skyrim disc (new): $59.99
Geek Squad! protection plan (2 year warranty) $99.99

Altogether with tax that came to $587.75. I had money saved, I wanted to improve my game, so for me it was a slam-dunk.



You don't have to for the Silver version. There is Silver and Gold I think. Silver is free, Gold is the paid one.

I agree, I don't want to pay for Xbox live, either. When I got my game, I was assuming that I would have to buy a membership to get online DLC into my game, thank goodness this is not the case.

Saga: That's a fair point, and is definitely valid if you're getting a console for the first time and are unsure of what to choose from, but if you already have a Playstation and you're doing this for not just one game, but merely an item of DLC, it becomes a lot harder to justify. Plus that's still a fair amount of cash, in any case.

You don't have to pay for a version of Xbox Live that allows you to download DLC and expansions, either. You just get the Silver membership for that, which is completely free. I usually do that, and then now and again (ie. once or twice a year) get Gold membership for when I feel the urge to shoot up bear man dem on Halo.

At the exchange rate as it was this morning...£1 = $1.55... I checked it out for this very thread and everything... ...

$587.75 becomes just a few pence short of £380 over here...I'm sure there's bundle deals about that would make it cheaper...But as Mustard said...When you're only doing it for the DLC (as good a case as you made for all the other nifty features Kinetic has) espescially when things like food, petrol, heating and various other mundane thyingyies get in the way...£380 really is waaaay too much...

Even the quick find on amazon-uk of £260 is too much to sneak past the wife... ...

Ach, I'll just wait till christmas and see if the brother buys me one... ...Aaand that's less of a joke than you might think...He turned up on our doorstep just before christmas one year - like Mr Scrooge and his giant goose for poor old Crachitt - and presented us with our first PS3...Sooo...You never know with him... ...

Sure, I understand that folks. I understand cost is an issue for many. I totally get that, it took me awhile to get a second console....thinking and budgeting. I was just letting any potential "on the fence" type of PS3 gamers know about the pros and cons of switching over to another system. I did it, and I'm satisfied.

And I probably could have found my Xbox for even cheaper. We're always having sales here in America. Labor Day sale!!! Back to school Sale!!! Day after New Year's! The Xbox with 250 GB (the one I have) can potentially be found for perhaps $50 cheaper than I spent. I was just getting impatient around the time Dawnguard was being released, and HAD TO HAVE IT NOW. School was out for my daughter, I had the money. .....

But in my case, I also figured: I will be making tons new characters over these next few years, not just in Skyrim, but in Oblivion as well. Do I really wanna put all this on my aging (4 year old) PS3?

By the way...let's all take a moment to congratulate ourselves! I made the same exact suggestion over at Bethsoft about a month ago (switch to Xbox), and I explained to them that I was making this suggestion from the heart, because some folks in the PS3-Hardware sections are MISERABLE with their games. I was trying to do good, in other words, and OY the flaming that occured! It was sad.

But you folks are more civilized.

Eh, I guess it's fair enough. Though to be fair, it's pretty easy to read that suggestion as 'this is an easy problem to solve; just spend lots of money!' and when you read it like that it's quite easy to see why people get annoyed; hell, I read and even though I knew you meant well it put me in the mood to go and storm the Winter Palace just a bit. Now imagine a forum where the atmosphere isn't quite as tolerant as this one's, and, well, are you really that surprised?

Regarding the Xbox Live membership, I do remember getting an online coupon for I think $40 off (almost half), which made it less painful. I got it so The Boy could play his games while cursing at his friends. At least I think that's what he's doing. I just close the door! But my point was, coupons. I think it was through those Amazon daily deals.

It is? Huh. go figure. I've been reading "get a PC, Renee, you can get mods and Console Commands" for years now. It has never bothered me, personally.

But I'll stop with my suggestions, then.

Saga, I found your post about Kinect to be helpful, and part of a civil discussion. I won’t presume to speak for Mustard, but I’ll say that I didn’t infer any hostility from what he said. One thing I really like about the community here is that many folks give each other the benefit of the doubt. In print it’s easy to accidentally infer a tone that isn’t implied. I like knowing that I can express myself here without worrying that someone will take offense.

Back on the topic of Dawnguard and the PS3, did I mention that I lost two characters with the last update? DovahKen and Skyrim Jerric became unplayable. I worry about my old, bloated games (Jensa!) and new content. Is this a groundless fear, I wonder?

A little something....

OOooh...

Well, I shan't begin with the holding of breath just yet...But hey, it's a start...