Due to some recent hardware woes being experienced here, I've decided it might be time to open a thread dedicated to PC Hardware. If you have questions about what to buy, are having system problems, or just want to brag about your PC, all that is most welcome here.

To begin, a response to mALX's recent BSOD issues:

PFN_LIST_CORRUPT means that something (usually a hardware driver) is screwing around with the Page Frame Database (which in layman's terms is how Windows keeps track of paged memory, or memory being used by applications, drivers, etc.). Given your experiences, it sounds like perhaps your GPU drivers are what's causing the breakdowns.

Problem is, the drivers you have are completely compatible with your card, so I am inclined to believe that this may be a warning sign that your GPU is dying.

Have you been having any other problems related to your GPU, like overheating?

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I am positive it needs to be cleaned inside, we live in a dustbowl - several quarry's in the area, farmland, etc.

I upgraded the graphics card, the power supply, and the fan when I bought it.

I do this all the time. It's a great quick-n-dirty way to keep your PC cool. Downside is, as you said, it requires more frequent dusting to do this, but Compressed Air dusters are cheap.



Yeah, you may want to look into getting a new GPU soon. Try going for the GeForce 9 series if you are on a budget, or look for my card model (8800GT). My card is quite good, and you can get it for very cheap nowadays.

I think it has the NVidia GForce 8600 GT right now, just two years old. I only play Oblivion at half graphics - would that burn it out so soon? GAAAAH! I wonder if the extended warranty I bought is still active?

Taken from the Wiki on the 8 series:


I really hate to say it, but your card might be defective. Overheating GPUs can cause a slew of problems and BSODs. That's just speculation, but that's where all the evidence I've seen thus far is pointing. If you are under extended warranty, make sure to let nVidia know about that.

If you have to replace the GPU, and you are not opposed to ATI...Might I suggest ATI Radeon 5770HD. You can get one from Newegg.com for around $130-$160. It is the card I am using and I can run Oblivion and Fallout 3 at max settings with no issues. It requires a power supply of 600W minimum.

Thanks. I found the warranty paperwork, it is expired...bleah. I'm going to try to still bring it to the Geek Squad and hope they'll fix it even if it costs me, I don't know of any other PC fixing people around here.

Thank you so much TK, for looking up that info for me - I would have had no idea what to look for. You ROCK !!!!!

When I said my power supply I added was massive - I meant big looking and heavy to carry, not powerful.

I have only a 400W power supply. GAAAAH. I'm going to bring it to the Geek Squad and if they won't fix it I may need to get another PC tower. (hopefully something that will be compatable with the POS HP monitor - and the printer (which I actually like except it goes through cartriges like a termite on Skooma. It's called the "all-in-one because it uses all of the cartridge up in one printing session).

A power supply will also degenerate over time and provide less power. If your power supply is 3 years old, for example, it may only be capable of providing 380 Watts (rough estimate).

My computer is equipped with a 1000 Watt supply to keep this from being a problem. If you do need to get a new GPU, I would also suggest upgrading to something around a 600 Watt PSU. That doesn't require a whole new PC, you just need to unplug and replug everything the PSU is providing for.

However, there is one outlying question I need answered: Is your motherboard PCI-Express 2.0 compliant? If not, then you are really looking at a new PC. You cannot buy a decent GPU without PCI-E 2.0 compliancy nowadays. *looks it up* I just looked it up, and the 8600GT is only PCI-E 1.0 compatible. Do make sure you have 2.0 available, because a MoBo upgrade is equivalent to a full system upgrade.

I don't know how to find out, device manager? Anyway, it is in the shop now. Canned message below:

Just got back from the Geek Squad, had to leave it at the shop $255. just to diagnose the problem and sell me an external hard drive to copy files to so they don't lose them. (however, I have to sign a waiver saying if they lose my files I am USCWAP.

Then I bought a laptop, thinking they would nicely give me a copy of my documents so I'd have something to do while they have my pc - that was a fail.

So right now I am on my HUNDRED YEAR OLD HP that I had to keep reformating every couple days. The monitor is round, the pc is very slow. The mouse doesn't have a wheel on it. I can't read anything on this monitor. Too tired to set up the laptop yet.

I'm going to eat something and will get back on here later.




@ Rick -





Uh, if it is the graphics card I may have a problem. TK said the mobo may be a POS that doesn't take good graphics cards - well, it is an HP, so I would almost bet it won't take the great ones. I think they were sqeezing all the life out of the [censored]er when they sold me the NVidia GForce 8600 GT and installed it - I did tell the guy when I bought it that I wanted to be able to play OBLIVION on it. Gaaah.

So now the SAME STORE just talked me into a laptop that is supposed to be able to play Oblivion, Fallout 3, and SKYRIM (did you know the requirements list is out? I have a copy of it!!) - It is an Asus
G73S - now that I am home and not being pressurized by the salesman I plan to look it up and see how much I was taken in this time. It does say "Republic of Gamers" on it, that is what sold me really - the salesman could have been a talking squirrel after that.

Now hang on! I never said that your MoBo was terrible, I just said that it is rather important to have PCI-E 2.0 compliancy on a modern gaming machine (as well as 64bit, which I do not have). So long as it does, which it might )I don't know the ins and outs of PCI-E that much), it might be perfectly reasonable to think that a PCI-E slot could take both varieties. At least you have it!

As for the laptop, those are pretty difficult to game on, particularly because you don't have the same hardware flexibility as a desktop PC. Try cramming a GTX 460 into one of those little paving slabs! That card is as tall as some laptops are wide (minor exaggeration)!

mALX...please do some research before purchasing an "in store" computer. I bought the computer I am using right now from an online company. The bare bones price (no monitor, no software) was well under $1,000. However, that doesn't include shipping. I was a huge Best Buy fan forever and the fellow geeks over at the BSGF forums talked me out of there and into online buying. I am so glad they did.

Let me dig up my spec sheet and I will post exactly what you can get and for how much. This way TK (who obviously knows his chit) can look at it too. I will also post a link to the BSGF thread where this all happened for me, if I can find it.

I believe my GTX 580 is longer than most laptops, and probably weighs more too, and uses more power...

But yes, laptops are not ideal choices for gaming. You pay more and get less of everything, especially the ability to upgrade at a later date. Unless you absolutely have to tote your computer around with you to different locations (as I do at work, as I am Road Warrior), you should never buy one.

I must QFT here. ALWAYS buy your desktop PC custom-made. Alienware, Dell XPS, etc... all rubbish. You have no control over what goes into those machines, and you pay an extra shiny Septim for the brand name.

My PC was completely custom made by a local retailer. What exists inside it is being pushed to the absolute best it can be; absolutely nothing is holding my system's hardware back. You can't get the same by buying a pre-assembled tower. Who cares if you've got a glowy-eyed Gray on the front? What matters is what you have inside.

Make sure that you research everything you want to put into your PC. That is the bottom line.

GAAAAH!!! It's too late, I already bought it ... BUT - I just played Oblivion at high graphics on it without a hitch, not one !!! My desktop with that upgraded graphics card and power system ran it at medium, when I tried to put it on high it stuttered the game - GAAAAH !!!! I am pretty excited about it (today anyway, lol).

OH !!!! And the tilde key works on the laptop - it never did on the PC, I had to get the "Ring of Console" on the PC !!! WOO HOO !!!!

Here is what it has:

Intel I7 2.0 Ghz
8 gig ram
1 gig dedicated to graphics
64 bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
NVidia GE Force GTX 460 M graphics card
2.0 Webcam
Intel WIFI Wimax6250
700 gig hard drive (7200 rpm)

But can it do THIS?





Glad to hear your laptop is working out okay!

HOLY CRAP, TK !!! ROFL !!! - I haven't had any Oblivion gates open yet, I'll see how the framerates take a cut when they do. If it is too bad I'll drop the graphics down to medium. Can't wait to get some mods on my game though, the vanilla Maxical cat was ... vanilla.

It has a full keyboard, but when I pick up my PC I am thinking about getting a keyboard and mouse for it - all mine here are HP's and I don't want to curse my laptop by hooking them up, lol. If you have any particular gaming preference in keyboards and mice ... feel free to advise, otherwise I'll go with logitech.

If its just basic stuff you're looking for, Logitech is the way to go. They make some pretty decent mice and keyboards that will last you a while.

Oh, and I always take a performance hit when near Oblivion Gates. I think it's because of that heat shimmer shader effect, it's a killer. Kinda like the water reflections. You can turn that effect off, but it will leave behind graphical artifacts (black squares), because it seems to be a hybrid shader/particle effect. Basically the shader gives the shimmer effect to the rendered scene behind those squares and fills them in. Without the shader, the squares don't get textured and are left black.

I won't ask what it cost. The specs look decent. You have twice the RAM that my desktop has, but a slower speed (2.0 Ghz vs. my 2.95 Ghz). If you didn't have Windows 7 before, you're gonna love it! It has the stability of XP with some of the better features that Vista tried. I have always been a desktop guy, so I know diddly-squat about laptops. My biggest fear with laptops has been overheating. It just seems like there couldn't be enough airflow to keep a serious GPU cooled in a laptop. But like I said, I know diddly about them. Not much point in posting the links and specs that I was going to now.

RE: Keyboards and mice - I have always stuck with Logitech. They have proven to be good equipment for the buck.

Here's hoping it all works out for the best...you deserve it after the problems you have had recently.

Thanks !! I've got my fingers crossed. It has two gigantic fans sticking out the back, and it weighs enough that I will have to switch sides I carry it on frequently to keep from looking like Sigrid on one side and Amusei on the other from lugging it around.

Well... I'm having computer troubles of my own, it would seem now.

I was attempting to defrag my hard drive, but the program I was using crashed every time I tried, corrupting several vital files in the process. This rendered Windows unable to boot properly. Last time I use an off-standard defragging program....

I'm restoring a backup of my system now, which thankfully, I was able to import all of the data I wished to keep (game files, savegames, story drafts, pictures, etc.). I should be back up and running in about an hour or so. In the meantime, I've borrowed my mother's computer to type this out and keep me occupied.

EDIT: OK, I've finished my backup and got most everything back in the state it was when the crash occurred. I do need to re-install my sound card's drivers but that won't be too hard.

I hope this isn't catchy...first mALX, now you...nervousness is setting in.

ROFL !!!! I hope not too. If I have to spend much more time on this round screen monitor I will start swaying when I walk like a sailor on leave. I have to get a keyboard and mouse for my laptop - I rest my wrists right where the touchpad is and it is extremely sensitive. Just hovering over it makes it flip through stuff. On the Oblivion game I kept drawing my sword out and attacking people without realizing it. Thank goodness I was unarmed when I punched out Uriel Septim.

You punched Uriel Septim? How dare you?

I would look to see if you can adjust the trackpad to ignore light touches. Mine (Apple Mac Book Pro - four years old) has a system setting that allows me to adjust the trackpad sensitivity.

Ditto on external mouse and keyboard. Using the built-in input devices on my laptop just aggravates my carpal tunnel.

Mine is starting to get hinky - I'm trying to figure if it's the recent system update that's buggy, or if my logic board is finally going. I've never used a lappie longer than two years . . .

But this one is soooo cool! I edit all my photographs on it, and all my writing (backed up to external disks and the cloud, of course).

Which reminds me, I've got to back up my Aperture library. I'm off now.

Lol.

BOLD: Would that be in the control panel?

Welp. I'm not near a Windows computer to verify, but I think that is correct. At least, it's where I recall all the system settings dwelling on those machines, anyway. But I've only used up to Windoze 2000 (sucks). XP was the best version I've used, and the version I'm most familiar with. But that's where I would look for it. If you want, PM me and I'll send you my email; you can then send me screenshots of the control panel contents and I can help you find the right place to go. Or else you can wait for TK or one of the other Windows users to chime in and help ya out. I'm used to clicking on things until I find what I'm looking for, so I don't always remember how I get there!

BTW, I've heard good things about Windows 7, and I mean really good things. Stuff normally reserved for Mac OS X (the best OS out there, though I can't vouch for Linux, never having used that one). So it seems you've finally got a MS product that actually does what it's supposed to do!

You've obviously never tried ME before. Why did M$ even bother to release that bug-ridden piece of trash?

And let's not forget the debut of Plug-n-Play on '98. That was fun.

I don't usually use laptops, though, so I can't vouch for where the touchpad controls would be located. I hate touchpads, anyway, so the sooner you can get your mouse, mALX, the better.

Touchpads for laptops often have a third-party app controlling them. Often it will put an icon down on the right hand side of your taskbar. See if you can find that, and change the settings.

Otherwise try Control Panel -> Mouse, and see if the pad is listed under connected devices, and try adjusting it from there.

If worse comes to worse, go to Control Panel -> Device Manager - Human Interface Devices. The touchpad should be listed there. Right click on it, and Disable it. That should shut it off completely.

I fell in love with 7. When I had to replace my Vista OS computer, the new one had 7. The guys were able to clone or port or whatever my whole old machine into the new one thanks to some whiz bang 7 feature. I don't mean transferring data files or whatever, I mean cloning an entire complex mod-enhanced installation and dropping it into the new machine.

Once they fired it up my whole patched, modded OB installation ran perfectly. Even my desktop complete with wallpaper was there on start up. A new computer, but no reinstalling. How cool is that?

I got a wireless mouse and it works great! Calibrated the colors on the screen so this site looks brown/tan like it is supposed to (instead of neon purple) - now to figure out the touch pad. I didn't find it under control panel - I miss my icons that tell what is in control panel instead of these elegant looking phrases all bunched together under a heading. I wonder if I can fool with that and fix it the way I like it too?

I believe it might actually have been just as simple as plugging in your hard drive to a different computer and upgrade-installing Windows. Upgrade installs do not require a full reformat of the disc, see. If your Hard Drive follows SATA protocols (which nowadays most of them do), they are universally compatible. You can plug it into any computer and it will work without any need to tinker with drivers or any of that beeswax. Since your hard drives were not harmed when your previous machine kicked it, all that really needed to be done was take your drives, upgrade-install to Win 7 (which was possible because you previously used Vista), give you some nice shiny new hardware, plug in your HDD and kaboom!

Just in case you were wondering how that happened.

But what if you got a new drive in the bargain? Well, simple -- they did all the work on your previous drive... then cloned the data over to the new one. I use that sort of technology all the time (in fact, just today).

I'm notorious for re-using my hard drives from dead/dying computers.

Most recently I upgraded the HD in my laptop computer. Instead of tossing/recycling the old drive, I bought a external HD enclosure for it (FW 800 compatible - I love speed), cloned it to the new drive, then re-formatted the old drive and now I use it for backup of all my photographs. It works just fine for that purpose.

I'm just geeky that way. Dad taught me to DYI, and I just extended it to my computers.

Ugh! I remember WinME, and I couldn't agree more. I have come to believe that ME was to XP what Vista was to Win7. Just an experimental sandbox for M$ to try new stuff.

I do know that I love Win7. All the better features of Vista without that horrid memory hogging.

I am looking at a new motherboard and processor and I'd like to know your thoughts on this before I go out and drop some coin.

I was considering the Intel i7 2600
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-2600-Proces...0457&sr=8-2

It appears to be no different than the Intel i7 2600K which is $30-$40 more.

Is this a suitable processor for gaming? Are there any others you would suggest?

Let's see, Core I7 2600...

Quad core, check.

Hyperthreading, check.

3.4GHz, check.

You're good.

I know this because I'm running on a quad core without hyperthreading at 2.40 GHz heavily modded without issue.

Do keep in mind that Oblivion is not really going to care much about the first two features, though.

Thanks for the input.

I'm thinking ahead to Skyrim and possibly other games. I wouldn't be buying a quad just for Oblivion.

What is the difference between the 2600 and the 2600k?

EDIT: it appears that the only difference is the onboard graphics. So, the 2600K is not really worth dropping the extra coin on.

Okay, just finished my backup.

Here's what I do: I make a full copy of my hard drive, exactly as it is, onto a separate drive that I keep on standby, disconnected from my PC's power grid most of the time. This ensures that no malicious programs have any hope of harming the contents of that disc.

What do I keep on that disc? Everything. State of Windows, games, etc. It is a perfect copy of my primary hard drive at the time the backup was performed. So good is it, in fact, that if I encounter a problem on my primary disc, I can still boot my computer into my secondary disc in case there's anything important I wish to add to the backup that wasn't there previously.

This sort of a backup is known as a disc clone. Every file, in exactly the state it was in, gets copied to a separate hard drive. If my PC's primary drive gets corrupted, I have a very effective and simple "undo" button.

Also, the software I use to make the clones is operated outside of Windows. It's the main reason I still have a 3 1/2in. floppy drive, actually.

Benefits?
-Extremely easy to do
-Provides a backup I can actively manage
-Ensures no data corruption or damage from malicious programs
-No need to pay for some shifty online service
-If all else fails, I can boot into the backup disc just in case it is needed

Downsides?
-It takes a while
-You need to remember to keep the clone updated, because reverting to an out-of-date clone can cause you to lose a lot of work.

Speaking of which - I just got my PC back from the shop. They copied all my files onto an external hard drive thingy (375 gig). They were supposed to put them back on the PC when I got it back but had not done it. When I complained they said I could do it myself or leave it another few days (after I drove over an hour to get to their shop).

I took the PC and external drive - but don't know how to get my files back on there.

Then, the PC was filthy and filled with dust when they handed it to me. I said, "What's this? Why didn't they clean it when they were working on it?"

They said I didn't ask them to. So I told them to CLEAN IT !! I had to wait another half hour, they give it back to me, and as I am carrying it out, the case falls off. They didn't put the screws back into the case. I had to bring it back in, and they said, "Oops!"

Geek Squad, people. Take it as a warning.

Speaking of which - I just got my PC back from the shop. They copied all my files onto an external hard drive thingy (375 gig). They were supposed to put them back on the PC when I got it back but had not done it. When I complained they said I could do it myself or leave it another few days (after I drove over an hour to get to their shop).

I took the PC and external drive - but don't know how to get my files back on there.

Then, the PC was filthy and filled with dust when they handed it to me. I said, "What's this? Why didn't they clean it when they were working on it?"

They said I didn't ask them to. So I told them to CLEAN IT !! I had to wait another half hour, they give it back to me, and as I am carrying it out, the case falls off. They didn't put the screws back into the case. I had to bring it back in, and they said, "Oops!"

Geek Squad, people. Take it as a warning.

My mother uses her computer for work. She has a monster that I drool over every time I am at her house. She is a graphic artist for a company that makes beach towels, boogie boards, beach chairs and umbrellas, etc., so her computer is her life. She took it to The Geek Squad (she bought the machine from Best Buy and paid for the best warranty available) and they had the machine for 3 WEEKS!

Bottom line...Best Buy and The Geek Squad are pure crap for buying and servicing computers. I'll never buy an in-store pre-built computer again.

Now you can advise with experience. NEVER EVER EVER let the Geek Squad look at your computer. They have no clue what they are doing and their work ethic SUCKS. No professionalism whatsoever.

When it comes to computer maintenance, I always always always DIY. Either that, or let a trusted source look at it, and to earn my trust with my machine takes a lot of work; currently only two people have it (my step-father and his true son).

@mALX: For getting all the data off the hard drive, you will need a program like Symantec Norton Ghost, which is a disc cloning/imaging tool. I can't advocate which one supports Vista best, but if you were on XP, I would suggest 2003. Ghost 2003 has practically never let me down (though the Ghost brand has taken a dive in recent years.

What you should do, however, is go back, demand to speak with their manager if need be, and get them to give you your data back. That's personal info; you can sue if they refuse.

EDIT: It is also possible to clone your disc in Linux. If you can get your hands on a copy of Ubuntu Linux 10.04, I can help you through the procedure there. I recommend getting a version you can boot from a disc; that way you don't have to screw around with partitions on your hard drive.

DIY is all very well if you know what you're doing but with more advanced things it takes a while (and mistakes) to learn. I wouldn't recommend learning on a computer which has data you need.

Before I did this stuff myself I found tiny little computer shops were the best. The ones which aren't part of a chain can't afford lots of advertising so rely on word of mouth and customers returning. They're not as cheap, but they do sort things out. Just ask around for recommendations.

Failing that find someone who knows, but give them something for their time (booze is a good bet, here at least). Once people think you know computers you get asked quite a lot, it's a lot easier to give an explaination you know is useless than to actually fix it.

When I worked at the Computer Store at the University, we tried to always give people their money's worth. Helped that we were "cost-recovery" rather than "for-profit".

Do not know how close you are to Knoxville- or if the Computer Store still does repairs. But I would trust them.

Another alternative would be to see if a nearby technical school or community college with a Computer Science program could do the work...

I did my classes at Pellissippi State- and look where I am today! Drooling in a corner... no, wait.

Actually one of their former students is the head of IT for the Mercedes plant in Birmingham. So---

Just in case you weren't already convinced these guys are trouble... here's a few more tales.

One of them should look familiar to you, mALX...

They sent me home with my files on something called "My Passport Essential 320 GB - thingy - but I had to pay retail cost for it, of course. But I'm not sure how to get the files off it. He said, "just stick them on your desktop in a folder and just go in and out of that folder whenever you need anything from your old files."

The thing is, when I was dropping it off, they said they would put it on this device for storage, then when my PC was fixed they would put all the info back on. I believed them, because that is exactly what Acadian's shop did for him when he brought his PC in for upgrades.

I had to re-install my email, internet access, printer, scanner, etc. - that meant digging through my house and finding the old discs for everything (thank goodness I had everything in one place.

They said they restored my PC to its original new state (which had a bunch of 6 month free trial stuff on it - including Norton anitivirus, which is almost like giving yourself a virus in itself). They deleted all access to the 6 months free, but left Norton on the PC - even though they all carry "Norton removal tools" on a thumbdrive around their necks. I asked him to take it off, he said no. He said I had to go home and do it myself, that they didn't do that out of hand without an order for it. I said ... But you are the one that put it on there! GAAAAH !!!

My son said if my PC was food, the geek squad would have spat in it before giving it back to me. (because I was getting very ticked off).

@ Treydog - Is the PC shop you are talking about on the UT campus? (Where? - pant, pant) - UT is like an hour away, I know most of the campus though. (well...I know the strip, UT hospital, the Vet hospital, and 17th street - Ft. Sanders Hospital, lol). I may or may not have climbed a telephone pole on a dare on the strip at one point in my early twenties ... not admitting to anything though.

:facepalm:

You have left me well and truly speechless with horror. "Just put the files on a folder and drag the ones you want off to the desktop?" I need to shoot that bozo right now.

mALX, take it from me, do not return to the Geek Squad, ever. If I received my PC back with Norton on it, I would have marched straight back and demanded it be removed with much vigor and anger. That thing is such a resource hog and is so difficult to remove it's like a malignant tumor.

You still have the external drive they put all your data on, right? I suggest finding someone who knows his stuff (ask around, they rely on word of mouth for business), and have him figure out what's on that external disc. Afterwards, if all looks well there, have him WIPE your hard drive as it is now to EVISCERATE Norton with extreme prejudice, and clone the contents of the external drive back onto your disc. However, I still fear for you. Knowing the geek squad, they may have screwed that up, too.

Really, how hard is it to run a simple disc clone? It only takes about an hour or two.

I beg this of you mALX, never ever ever ask the Geek Squad for help again. They'll just take your problem and make it ten times worse. They are a horrible blight on the computer market and deserve to die a slow and painful death.

I didn't like the Geek Squad just because they are Best Buy but they sound truly terrible.

If you need to find a place I recommend just getting on google maps and typing "computer repair near [your town and state]" I did that for my town and I found lots of small places.

Apparently the Computer Store (in the Student Center) does not do much PC repair anymore. They use PCS Computers, located in Louisville. (Literally within walking distance of where I grew up).

Anyway- to echo the above- generally smaller shops are better. But how do you know until you have had an experience with one of them? In future, you might ask small businesses/professionals you frequent who they use and are they happy with service. Every office has computers now- and someone has to be maintaining them.

Really sorry for your experience, mALX. Even though I am more a "hobbyist" than a technician, it gives all computer repair a black eye to have someone treat you like that.