Poser is a 3d modeling program... people make stuff on it and call it their "art."
Is it really art to take a 3D model and make it do stuff, then adding lots of other little things in the picture?
One might say that this isn't true art, but others say this is simply an art form.
I think that the "art" in 3D modeling is yourself and your ablitiy to think of a scene and create it anyway possible, even with poser.
Your thoughts and opiouns concerning 3D art?

Well, my only experience with 3d art is with a program called Wings3d. I can't say much about it. If you know what you're doing (And have got a comp that doesn't get a heartattack at 20000 poly's ) you can create some nice things with it that I would call art. Me, I am just messing around with it when I need to get rid of my creativity or my head will pop.

For some stupid reason, the only thing I am somewhat decent at is the modelling of sci-fi spaceships, most of them original stuff. Remaking a Constitution class or something like that is not my cup of tea. Everything that isn't a spaceship just won't work. Maybe I should imagine a person to be a spaceship with the head being the front.

I'd say definately.

It takes forever to pose things. Much longer and harder than putting a pen cil to paper and drawing something considered as 'art'.

Well, it is art in a way... Kind of like when you make your own mod for Morrowind, Oblivion, and other games: You alter something and make it your own artistic vision.

Now, the controversial thing (on the business and fairness aspect) about Poser that 3D artists complain about is, that, if you are looking for work in the 3D animation/modeling industry, Poser is not going to help too much on the modeling for 3D aspect. (Because, you are just basically altering someone else's model and calling it your own. When you work in Pixar or some other 3D animation company, you have to be able to make your own 3D models). However, Poser does teach you animation and texturing and posing/boning, which is good.

Still, I think it is still considered art... just a bit different. As long as it looks good artistically, it is still art. It's like fanart to me. (However, on the other side of it, it's not technically all of your art. You still have to give credit to the artists who worked so hard on making the models/props that you are using.)

Now, if you made your own model, rigged it, and animated it all by yourself (or with a team of other animators), then it is your art (and 3D is art... just a different medium).

hey i was just wondering, where is this poser thing? what website do you go to, to make a poser thing?

I would say that it is art.. simply because it is how you present the final product. It is a vision of how that person sees the world/fantasy/etc.

If the argument is that very few of the models are produced by the actual artist, then would you also not consider photography an art? They are not actually making the people or tree or objects within the photograph, but simply catching them in ways to express their ideas.

Then I guess you could also say that painting a picture of a person would also fall into this category. The painting is more just an expression of how the artist views that object/person. The only difference with a 3D model is that the object is actual manipulated in the scene itself.

All that said... Yes, poser does contain certain shortcuts that can allow people to load other peoples work or viewpoints as to a way to quickly produce results. However, since there are an unlimited number of ways that a scene can be viewed rendered


1234king : You can download the Daz Studio program that Konradude is using for free from www.daz3d.com

Thanks Neela for the link... I needed something to do with my time off Morrowind...

Would you consider this as art? I made it using an extremely easy to use program called Terragen.

Just been wondering, 'cause I've got more where that came from. Should I post them in Fan Art section?

I'm not sure I mean...drawing characters is a lot harder than poser. I mean, it takes a lot of experiance with muscle structures and it's not that easy as poser. Poser does most of the job for you, like it creates a standard figure which you can pose, wile when you would draw a character you would be forced to create the figure yourself, add shadows all by yourself without something calculating the shadows for you. It's not the same, having experiance with poser and drawing a lot I say drawing is a lot harder than poser.

not referring to your post ^^ -> It's harder as it seems but it's how hard you make it yourself. Some want to use custom stuff others use premade stuff. I prefer custom stuff, because you can call the artwork yours. I'm a lot more proud on an artwork which I have done 100% by myself than an artwork which I've done with someone elses work. I actually never use stuff made by others except a poser figure. Simply because it takes to much time for me to model my own figure.

But in a way you can concider it as art because even if you are using premade stuff which makes things a lot easier it's still hard to make a nice render, like photography. However you can't realy compare photography with poser because it's just isn't the same. All traditional arts are a lot harder than digital stuff. I mean everybody can learn how to make a cool render but not everybody can learn how to paint like da vinci.

It's what you do with the software, like if you just put a character in a scene, give it a premade pose with premade clothing hair and textures, use some premade lightning and camera angle it's not art. It's called using other people's stuff. THe thing which bugs me about poser is that it makes some people look like they are great digital artists wile in fact the model and textures were done by someone else. That's why I don't use it anymore because I never realy felt the artworks were mine.

I would consider this to be more art than what I do, which is just cutting and pasting pictures together XD

I agree with you, 100%.

Neela, I hope I did not offend you about the whole Poser thing. I did not say it is not art! I just said, it is not really 100% 'your art', unless you did the models and textures yourself. What I mean is, if someone wants a job on modeling and texturing characters (digital character modeler for animation/gaming, etc), he/she will have to learn to model his/her own characters sooner or later... Otherwise, when you go to do the job.. you have no clue how to model your own character from scratch.

For drawing and Poser, Poser is not entirely hard, but it can be very difficult. Same goes for drawing (though it can get really, really, really difficult). If you are making your own model from scratch, it is like drawing your own character from scratch: both take long hours/days to do. It's not just 'making a line'.. It's making shadows, muscles correctly, porportions, etc. (I am not an expert myself on drawing, so I don't know how to do those stuff very well). For modeling 3D characters, you have to make it without it looking, er, creased or messy or taking up too much memory on the computer, then putting shadows and textures, etc.

Both methods can be used to make art. (Poser is also art, because you are positioning, putting lights, etc. to make a nice scene.) It just depends on which one you prefer. :shrugs: (What bugs me though, is when people brag about their '3d' skills, when they don't even model their own characters. Animating, which is good, or posing, yes, but modeling? No.).

A vital difference that stops many an artists:

Unlike 3DSMAX (the most prominent modelling software available) a piece of paper, pencil and inks dont cost thousands and thousands of pounds.

True, true. Though if you are a beginner modeler, and don't have any money, you could try downloading free 3D programs (such as Wings3D or Anim8tor). But, yeah, so true.

exactely, eventho it's hard to do a nice scene it's still not realy like you've made everything. No matter how much you changed the looks or w/e. Just like traced images aren't art. Not saying it isn't art but it's just not the same as traditional or tablet artworks.

Don't worry, MerGirl I actually agree with both sides on this.. I can see where many rendered scenes with Poser might not be considered art, at least not art created solely by the creator of the scene.

In some ways a scene is compilation of many different artists with one overall persons vision. I am sure this is represented in the art world as well with other media. That said I really don't consider much of my pics art nor myself an artist. I lack any real talent when it comes to even 'drawing a straight line' on paper.

Poser, though, does allow me to express pictures that I would like to be able to create without having the ability to put pen to paper. The definition of art is probably as abstract as the definition of beauty. What some consider art other consider just blotches. All of it is very subjective.

I will make one argument for Poser though... The human models I am using are not just static polygons. There are well over 300 morphs, each with its own infinite range of motion added into these models and capable of changing the look of the model. It is much like a hunk of clay that needs to be shaped, but not necessarily needed to do so. Poser very much lets you be as creative as you want as long as you are willing to spend the time.

I personally love the look of computer rendered works, but I also envy anyone with the talent to make it directly with their own hands.

If Neela says it's art it's most definitly Art Neela's stuff RULES!

By all means do it, the pic is beautiful.
Art is a final product and beauty lies in the mind of observer. Heck, every single computer program, whether it be for 2d pictures or 3d modeling, is a tool of some sort, helping us to extract our own creativity. If it wasn't so, how could anyone in their right minds even concider those simple geometric things I call 'swords' being beautiful ? I am puzzled and perplexed. And also I feel warm when someone says they'll rip my PC in half if I don't draw more
Autocad is a 2d & 3d drawing and modeling program for engineers. Its primary use is to draw mechanical or architectural blueprints, schemes and models. BUt someone made a MiG-29 model using it. Someone else made entire structures and buildings with it. And one completely illiterate computer dumbass uses it to create models of swords and battlecruisers in it, because he's too dumb and too poor for 3DS Max but hey, he likes it that way, he really does...

Truly beautiful and magnificent landscape creation, The Wolf! I love it ... you howl to my soul. Sunset is my favorite time of day, in fact ... when I walk out of my front door to go to work in the evening shift ... the sunset is right outside my front door.

I think your Terragen work definitely belongs here in FanArt ... please share more. How about some of the stirring moonlight scenarios that you wolves so love to sing sonnato's too??

As for the question of whether Poser is indeed Art or Not = let me just clear it up by saying that all artschools and university art programs have Photography departments - Art created with the aide of a manmade device - so, I would definitely judge that Poser art is True Art. It still takes alot of skill to work the program, to have the eye for detail, color arrangements, spacial placement, juxaposition of objects, overall design talent. So, don't sell yourselves all short - just because you can't do it from scratch with a paper & pencil doesn't mean you don't have art in your soul & if Poser is the way you express it - SoBeIt.

I would love to see more Poser Art from people. It is even more enlightening and astounding to see totally fresh art from someone new than from art=educated artists. I think so. Perhaps Geonox would agree with me - new insights are often almost ethereal in their freshness.

Yes, Poser is art.

You know those artists that use trash to make art? Well, they did not create the trash themselves but still it's their art. Or people creating art by gluing together chairs or something similar, well, they didn't make the chairs, but still it's their art.

However, I do agree that by just doubleclicking the premade, fully clothed, ready posed models and maybe adjusting the light a bit would not be appropriate to be called their art. It is art however, but then it's like taking a bunch of paintings made by other artists and put them on a wall calling the wall your art. It's not your art but their art on your wall.

Making a beautiful render or animation in poser is not easy. Sure, you can move the dolls limbs in a most natural way, but actually putting together a realistic pose, adding realistic self-made hair, creating a scenery and making realistic and beautiful light positions IS art. And it's damn hard to do.

Where do you get Poser anyway?

I think can download it from somewhere on this site, Hunter.

Poser is not free, so I don't believe it's downloadable from renderosity.com.

Here is the producers website (e-frontier) where you can buy the latest version for 280$. Alhtough there might be cheaper retailers in your area, or older versions wich costs less.

oh no... what IS free out there?

Well I don't know much of a free equivalent to Poser, don't think there is. But there are several regular 3d-programs that are free and filled with all the features you need.

Blender is one example.

Oh, wait.. Jikes now I don't know how to make this on topic

Personal creativity, that's art. People might not say it is, but you can't argue about taste.

On the topic of free programs. Wings3D is a good one. (At least I got it free.)
It is powerful enough for the simple things, though its performance is ultimately decided by your hardware. Best of all, it is very easy with everything a right mouse button click away.

I've also got Blender, but I can't wrap my mind around it. Just moving the camera is hell for me.

Here's the list