I can't help but think that Cyrodiil seems quite small compared to Morrowind. Am I getting this impression only because it's possible to see that tall tower in the Imperial City from all over Cyrodiil, or is the game world smaller than it was in Morrowind?

In Morrowind I felt like I could travel in one direction for a long time, and my marker didn't move too much on the main map. In Oblivion however, I look on the map before doing a quest and think 'wow, it's going to take a long time to get there!'. But a few minutes or even seconds later I'm there.

Of course another thing that may give me this impression is that in Morrowind you never saw further than a short distance in any direction, while in Oblivion you can practically see 'as far as the eye can see'.

I'm not complaining or anything. After all we have the Oblivion realm to roam in too, as well as all the caves. And I truly love standing on a mountain somewhere in nice weather and see the tower and other cities and landmarks in the distance.

But I'm just wondering if anyone else have gotten the same impression as me?

Yes,and i can exactly tell you why.
Fast travel.
In Morrowind when you have to go to let's say, Gnisis from Balmora you say:''Curses,there are no Silt Stiders to that place,what the hell should i do now?Well,guess i'll just have to walk.Or fly if i have Levitation potions''.That will make you explore the background,clean some caves,tombs and such.

In Oblivion instead of walking you can always use fast travel.Instead if exploring the way to Anvil,you will just hit the fast travel,because you need to go there because of certain quest.

Next thing:Oblivion is a lot faster.
Do you know how slow a character is in Morrowind when he\she has 5 Athletics?Woah.........That's slow.
While in Oblivion,you won't notice such a thing.

Morrowind also had more how should i say.......a lot of stuff in a small area.While in Oblivion there is a lot of free space in the woods.....
Also Oblivion has a lot more ''boring'' loacations.Every cave is the same,every ruin is the same,the same loot everywhere,the same enemyes everywhere,and more importantly the same GOD-DAMN texture everywhere.Ugh,it's quantity over quality.....In Morrowind you could find an interesting Vampire lair,in Oblivion it's a cave like any other.......
Daedric Shrines and Dwemer Shrines are a lot more intresting too.Man i simply love Daedric shrines.

I could probably come for a few more reasons,but i will need some time.

Yeah I do tend to notice that we're moving quite much quicker in Oblivion. And regarding fast travel, when I first heard that this would be a possibility I swore I'd never use it, as getting around in Morrowind was half the fun and 75% of the excitement. But I must admit I've been using it quite a lot.

And I also agree about the caves/ruins, come to think of it. Although I do tend to stay away from them if I can (they give me the creeps ) I have to visit them during quests of course, and I notice that they're quite similar indeed. In Morrowind there seemed to be more variety. Dwemer strongholds were fascinating with all their mechanical gadgets, and Daedric towers were fascinating with their architecture. Caves had hidden underwater areas and secret spots you could only find if you could levitate.

But all in all I love Oblivion so far. The graphics are amazing, and I've downloaded a lot of mods to improve textures. They've also made some changes to compensate for the fast-travel feature, like no levitation for example. In Morrowind I had enchanted items that gave me constant levitation and invisibility. Made it quite safe and 'boring' to explore...

Anyway, the fast travel feature isn't the reason I think the gameworld is small, it just seems smaller. You mention large areas of 'nothingness' in Oblivion, while I so far have experienced the opposite. When going somewhere I tend to bump into forts, caves, altars, shrines, Oblivion gates etc. every 50 meters it seems. I have the impression that there are far too many points of interest in Oblivion. Then again I haven't really explored the wilderness yet, only areas close to roads.

And in Morrowind I never reached an area where I could move no further, while in Oblivion I hit 'invisible walls' quite often.

I think it only feels small becuase of fast travel and horses, and you can litterally run everywhere. Running no longer drains fatigue...

So you can move pretty fast and it makes things feel smaller....

Though I disagree on the dungeons. They feel far more different than MW's ones. I mean, go in one tomb in MW and you've been in 'em all. In the aylied Ruins I have to keep my wits about as the freaking things have amultitude of ways of murdering me most brutually.

Example, I HAVE actually run into this, BTW.

There is in this one ruin, a long hallway. The middle is obviously a ceiling crusher, as it has the characteristic blood stains and spikes in the ceiling. So I decide to set it off and jump off.

Bad idea.

The Ceiling crushers mounted in the ceilings behind and in front of the trap in the middle come down as that one goes up.



Needless to say, that hurt...

Another ruin had note written by a bandit leader of what was going on inside the ruin. It wasn't linked to any quest mind you, just...there. It was neat. I encountered a similar situation in another ruin with a necromancer who had written (but not delivered) a letter to a friend in Daggerfall.

etc.



Morrowind had endlesses expanses of Water. Oblivion couldn't have that, as Cyrodiil almost entirely landlocked.

Thanks Aki,

You're correct about the borders. Morrowind was basically an island in the game, while it should actually also be bordered by other provinces like Cyrodiil, Skyrim and the Black Marsh. The perfect TES game would be one where you could explore entire Tamriel!

And thanks for reminding me of the exciting Aylied dungeons. They do indeed have some exciting and innovative traps. Like I said in the previous post the caves and dungeons freak me out. That can only mean Bethesda have done a good job with these. They're much more scary and exciting than in Morrowind. And the area they've created for the caves etc. must be just as large as the surface world. Very impressive.

But another thing that struck me is how large the city of Vivec was in Morrowind. I think it will be a long time before this will be matched in a TES game again. Again, it would take a game that involved the entire Tamriel. I sure hope that will be done some day!

i bet it's comming up for one of the next releases.

Slightly offtopic but keeping with the topic of the thread, I want to make summerset isle. No quests, just land, cities and dungeons. The dungeons themselves will be quests in themselves and I would overuse secret doorways to an extreme but I'd try to make a different secret doorway in every dungeon. The entire game will be completely alien and exploring new and interesting things like MW.

I don't think it would take too long to mod (maybe a year or 2) but it would take a great deal high quality 3d models which I don't have the time for. If I ever get some spare time I will start off making it and perhaps give what I end up with to tamriel rebuilt if anyone wants to continue, I wouldn't join they're mod to begin with because I think they would try to control it and I'd never get anything done.

If only I could have the finished product without any work or waiting

Morrowind wasn't just an island in the game, since what we got in TESIII was just the island of Vvardenfell and not the entire province. So Morrowind was/is bordered by other provinces while our TESIII island isn't and shouldn't be.

Ah, I see. I didn't know that. Thanks. Looking at the map of Tamriel that comes in the game booklet I can see that you are indeed correct. Vardenfell looks very familiar!

But then Cyrodiil should be much bigger than the area we had in Morrowind (the game), but somehow I feel it is smaller...

Then the Devs must've got it right the first time 'round.

TES I: Arena had all of Tamriel.

Now, try that and I dare you to say that Oblivion all 'feels the same'.

I got lost in Arena's endless expanses of clone-forest.

Wow, that sounds great! Never tried any TES games before Morrowind though. I thought each game was about their own province. Was Arena also a FPS-style game? Meaning you walked around like you do in Morrowind/Oblivion?

And I've never claimed that Oblivion feels the same as anything, I think.

Yes, Arena was FPS-style. Much more flat, though

http://www.bethsoft.com/games/games_arena.html

You can download Arena for free from Bethesda's website and check it out, if you like. They've released it for free, since it's not going to make them any more money... a example that other game studios could learn from, IMHO.

Looks like the Arena download might be for a limited time only, but it seems to still be there:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/tenth_anniv/te...anniv-arena.htm

lol... I'm going to get it! Anybody know where to get mods for it?

Wow Pisces, fellow stalkers think alike I see. I too have been wanting to mod Somerset Isle. Altmers being my favorite race as far as asthetics and attitude go. I would at least like to make a mod that takes place in parts of Sommerset and gives the overall feel of it.

To my knowledge there are no mods for Arena but there were some for Daggerfall, which took place in the province of Hammerfell. Isn't that right? Arena did cover the whole of Tamriel and yes, you could walk everywhere and I too used to get lost in the forest land ... but it was out there that I learned the rich lessons of looting dungeons.

Weren't the dungeons funny looking in Arena, Aki? There would be endless flat grasslands or forest and suddenly this mound would be sticking out of the earth with an opening in it and you'd be like "Alright! I'm gonna get rich now!"

Hay has any one been to http://www.silgrad.com/wbb2/index.php?sid= their modding in other areas of tamriel

Nope - Daggerfall is a city in High Rock. And whilst you could go walkies in Arena, fast travel between cities and the various nasty spots was a better bet - even if all the dungeons save the specials were based on exactly the same design.

Also note that in Arena, the only city in Imperial province is the Imperial City - much like any other city, really. Only you couldn't go visit the King/Queen/Count/Whatever.

Daggerfall took place in parts of Hammerfell and parts of High Rock. You should try playing the game if you haven't already since Daggerfall is much more better than Arena. Arena didn't even have guilds or books! Not to mention that the random quests can keep ocupied for whole years since they never end! I agree with all that's been said here about Cyrodiil being too small. You know why? Because all places of interest are practically next to eachother! Not to mention that you never do feel that you're out in the middle of nowhere because a city is always a few hundred meters ahead.

I'm pretty sure that this is going to be one of the expansion packs already, (or the next game) because of all the rumours you hear about it all the time,

I hope it won't be the horibly generic world that Oblivion was. I want to see something more original! I don't want to see Lothlorien from LOTR when I look at the capital of the Summerset Isles (Alinor or whatever its name is).

I agree that Cyrodiil is too small and Khaan, I have given up on Sommerset Isle being the location of a game or expansion ... because I got really excited about all the rumors concerning it prior to Oblivion and so didn't bother to try a mod there.

Maybe me & Pisces should just get together and recreate Sommerset together. And you know what? You all will have to sleep UNDER beds to get rested up.

hahahaha!!


{but you'll get lots of stalker points - which will be a primary class in our mod}

I think if Bethseda did do summerset isles (which I doubt), then they wouldn't do it the way I wanted. They would do it better, they would make it a fun game with quests to keep you occupied forever. But if I made it then I could make it specifically for me and Ibis's tastes with lots of pretty scenery with even prettier and out of this world towns and dungeons. And every dungeon or wizard's tower has its own story or past, perhaps with quest items inside them which you have to find the person who might want it (doing the "go get it" quest backwards). And I'd add heaps for a theif to do, because High elves like collecting rare items...but they will have to work for it. Life isn't easy for a stalker so I don't see why it should get it easy.

I'm not sure what people would think of my mod as a whole but I can tell you something: they won't be disappointed by Alinor. I have the artistic vision to make it amazing and unique but I don't have the 3d modelling tallent.

You know Ibis, I had to check what name you are using, its still confusing.

Thread comment: I still think Oblivion is plenty big, especially when I finally reach the top of some mountain and turn to look at the gorgeous scenery stretching for 'miles' around.

Comment on the post above. I tried to get Arena (been playing since daggerfall). Couldn't ever get it to open properly on my comp.

Oblivion felt immensely huge for me in the beginning. But I do think that the ability to see far away makes it feel smaller. Like Pseron would say; "a model train yard"
I do however, quite succesfully I might add, make it feel larger when I play. I accomplish this by walking and generally taking it slow, looking at trees and shrubs along the way as well as contemplating about previous adventures at places I walk past.

In other words I focus on where I am atm, not where I´m going to. Very important to make the world feel bigger.

I can honestly say that I have never thought of Cyrodiil as being small.
I don't know, it's just never seemed that way to me.

After years of playing Morrowind Cyrodiil felt very small to me. There was no mystery to Cyrodiil when I could see everything all at once. In Vvardenfell I couldn't tell what was around a corner or further down the road and that made Vvardenfell's landscape intriguing to me. Oblivion's infinite view distance destroyed much of my desire to explore. I missed the mystery and beauty of Vvardenfell's fog and, fortunately, was able to fix that problem with my "Morrowind Fog" mod.

However, after playing Skyrim for months I started a game last summer without the mod to see if I could tolerate Oblivion's view distance. I found that it didn't bother me quite as much this time. I still think Oblivion's LOD looks hideous but nowadays I am choosing to try to see that as part of the game's "charm."

In my case, Cyrodiil felt gigantic when I first started it up in 2008. But I was used to a multitude of games that don't allow much exploration. Games on PS and PS2, that is, with tons of invisible barriers. It took quite awhile to find one of Cyrodiil's invisible barriers. In comparison, a game like Crusaders of Might and Magic has invisible barriers as soon as we try to step off a particular path.

Nowadays, I realize both Cyrodiil and Skyrim are relatively small, but this is comparing to my real-life hometown. This all depends, though. I rarely fast-travel, instead preferring to walk from place to place. My characters usually only run if they're being chased by an enemy. I'm sure if I FT'd and ran everywhere the gameworld would feel much smaller than it is.

And I finally wanna say that there are areas in both Cyrodiil and Skyrim (unmarked roads) that can take hours to travel through. As my characters walk through these areas, the world does start to feel larger than it is.

I am like Lady Saga. Oblivion was my first open world game. So like her I was accustomed to being led on narrow rails down through the game world. Sometimes wider rails like in the Neverwinter Nights games. But still always herded along by a main quest and being unable to deviate too far off that path.

So when I first played Oblivion it felt like a huge expanse to me. Now that I know every nook and cranny of the place, it does seem a bit smaller. I can understand the Wyrdster's sentiments though, as Cyrodiil's design gives the appearance of being smaller than it really is. The unlimited view distance combined with the way the province is shaped like a bowl lends it that feeling. Sometimes you can look clear across most the province, and see the White Gold Tower from almost everywhere. In contrast Morrowind was laid out in a series of ridges and ravines, so your view distance was always curtailed. Plus of course the persistent fog, which just drove me nuts.

Funnily enough it’s walking everywhere (in the relentlessly gorgeous weather) that makes Cyrodiil feel small to me. If my character takes a carriage (fast travels) I can easily pretend that it was a long and tiring but uneventful journey. However walking back to the IC from Cheydinhal past the dead bandits all right where we left them this morning makes the whole province feel like my back yard. This is far from a complaint. One thing I like about Oblivion is the cheerful sense of belonging that most of my characters feel. If I want to be lost for days in a vast, unknowable nothingness I’ll just pop into an Ayleid ruin.

I hadn't thought about it much before you mentioned it, but I came to Oblivion from a game where you couldn't fall off a bridge, because there were invisible edges to the "walkable" parts of the landscape.

It took me quite a time before I discovered that you could swim in the water (previous games had boundaries at all shorelines) or walk down mountainsides that were too steep to climb back up. But then I spent a while drowning, and falling too far if I ran or jumped injudiciously. It's a completely different style of play, and I can understand people having preferences for one or the other.

With one exception (a game world that was topologically a torus, where going due north/south looped you around, and the same east/west) there aren't any that don't have a boundary somewhere. Even with the space games, the edge of the galaxy often was a logical boundary, as you'd stop going anywhere, and turning back instantly re-entered "known space".

But Oblivion's probably the only game where, on a clear day, you can see the opposite edge of the world. Maybe that's why I've added Valenwood and Elsweyr to mine! I don't like fog, which seems to be the standard view limiter used. The lack of it is one of Oblivion's plus points, IMHO.

Buffy has the best of both worlds. Astride Superian, she has a commanding view for great distance. When on foot in the wilderness though, her view is pretty much limited to the blades of grass in front her face. Quite literally, she has to hop up on rocks to see where she's going. Fortunately, detect life keeps baddies from sneaking up on her in the grass.

I have noticed something, comparing Cyrodiil to Skyrim. In TES: IV, we can see clear across the province, however the vanilla game will not draw ruins, forts, and other structures, unless you're maybe a couple hundred feet away from them. Only White Gold Tower/Imperial City can be seen from anywhere.

Well in Skyrim, it seems as if we can see across the entire province, but the draw distance is actually rather limited. If I get on top of a mountain near Riften for instance, it seems as if I can see all the way to Markath, but looking carefully, the draw distance doesn't go that far. It goes maybe as far as the Throat of the World/Ivarstead area, the rest of the world from there is usually fogged out. However, there is a lot more detail within this limited draw area. Bleak Falls Barrow can be seen from multiple places, for instance. It can be seen from a mile away, I am guessing. If Bleak Falls Barrow appeared in Cyrodiil, we'd only be able to see it once we were actually nearing it.

It's the game engine, right? It's because the two worlds are using different engines. Gamebryo vs. Creation.

Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, and Skyrim use the same game engine. Todd Howard lied when he claimed that Skyrim would have a new engine. All they did was slap a new name on it. They did improve the coding in the game a lot however, as in Oblivion's time it was very poorly done, wasting huge amounts of resources (for example, everything on the surface of the water is drawn not once, but twice).

I think no matter how big the world is, eventually we get to know every nook and cranny and that´s when it truly begins to feel small. Cyrodiil could have been twice as big, seven years down the road it would still begin to feel like a model train yard.

As much as I love Cyrodiil, I do find that the occasional expedition to Elsweyr (mod) or the SI is both fun and leaves me anxious to return home to Cyrodiil.

Absolutely! But the last few trips to the Isles made me wanna go back almost immediately

Yeah, this makes sense. The fact that time does pass when we FT (it's not an instantaneous teleport) means that the sun or moons are gonna change position, and it's not immediately obvious how much time this is.

I had never played an open world game before Oblivion so it felt huge. It wasn't until 2010 when I first started realizing how small it actually was.

QFT

We're definitely the exception when it comes to continuous play of the same game. It was designed for players of an average attention span, plus a bit more because by that time they knew their audience.

I play a large number of diverse characters, mainly for mod testing, so I'm frequently picking up a game with no recollection of where I left off. I'm always surprised at how I know where I am even when I've saved in the middle of nowhere. The arrangement of rocks are starting to be familiar, and it won't be long before clumps of trees do too.

I remember the first time I fast traveled from Anvil to the Imp City. Two days passed!

Actually, even having said what I previously said, I must admit that the occasional "holiday" if such as it can be called, is never a bad thing...
...but even Niamh would admit she likes to come back...

Maybe even Buffy´s level of attention span?

I'm not touching that. Not when she's got a new bow.

Really? Wow, that's more than I realized!

There's nothing wrong with Buffy's attention span. She'd tell you herself but she got distracted by something shiny. Then she saw a butterfly and followed it for a time until, "Oooh, is that a waterfall I hear?"