Well the main forums were all ablaze tonight over object shadows apparently are not included. For my part I think the game looks great. I played Morrowind for years before I even realized that I had the shadow option turned off. Most games that have shadows I usually turn off the option anyway.

I think shadows do add to what I call "atmosphere" games, like Thief games. Characters cast nice soft shadows.. that is enough for me. For every object to cast a shadow would have been really tough for any GPU to handle in real time. This I know from the rendered pictures I create what a big difference in processing time for pictures with shadows vs. without.

After reading many of the threads in the main forums, I guess I never really even expected object shadows in the first place. Which is why I don't feel too upset with this news.

Can anyone tell me why this is such a big deal for alot of people? Or is it simply that we are to that point where anything and everything we hear about Oblivion will sound negative compared to our hype and expectation for it?

Frankly... I have no idea what everyone is upset about. They're freaking out, but...why is not every little spoon casting a shadow going to ruin their "immersion and gaming enjoyment"
I really hope we do not have another delay over this.

Same here Storander.

My computer would die on me if every object cast a darn shadow, it already crashes frequently with Morrowind, and its gonna need an upgrade . . .

Shadows aren't a top priority on my list... okay so it can add a bit of atmosphere like Neela said but other then that it isn't important. If they deside to add shadows that'll be cool but i'm not going to burn everything Bethesda becuase it isn't that big of a deal.

Edit:yes gamer mine (as would most) would die as well...

I swear, most everyone on the main forums are so whiny. Like a pack of vultures they just circle and look for a weakness and then *BAMF* they pick at it and pick at it, wether it's a problem or not.

Very true.

All shadows do for me is slow my game down.

EDIT: Yay! First post!

Welcome to w4o Scarp!

Shadows? Oh dear I did not know that was an option....even in MW.....Ah well I think I´ll have to investigate it then.

But I´m sure it´s not a big issue...

To be honest, atmospheric shadows are applied using well placed lights not well placed objects. Sure a crate standing in the desert at midday with no shadow might look a little odd, but place that crate in a room with chandeliers (area lights) torches (spot lighting) etc etc and the crate-sans-shadow issue becomes obselete.

Having objects with no shadow is absolutely not an issue. It beggars belief why this has started such a storm.

I think I'm thinking of the same sort of shadows as you anyway.
They didn't look all that great really, so it doesn't matter.

ha ha ha yes, I quess thats a reason i don't go there anymore

I have never been to concerned with shadows for any RPG I have played, sure it may look nice. But I don't think I ever sat down and looked around saying "Wow, those shadows are exquisite." At least it never has had any influence on whether or not I bought a game. There are a lot of other things to be excited about. Why focus so much on the negative aspects of a game, if that is all we did then we wouldn't want to play any game.

I assume that it's this just the XBoX version. I assume they do include them on the PC. Am I correct?

I'm not sure but I would assume that they aren't included in either version of the game.

Though it's not likely that people will even notice the lack of shadows during gameplay so it's not that big of an issue to me, people will probably be more busy exploring the aspects of the game than worrying about the shadows. But you know that's just my opinion.

Minque:The morrowind shadows weren't that good, the shadow system couldn't tell a square shield from a circle shield or even if the character was wearing armor...not that I could do better mind you.

We probably won't know that until release. It kinda depends why they were removed. We know they were a feature in the first of the E3 videos(the one with the ribcage).

If they changed to a different lighting system or shadowing system in the code then it maybe unchangeable even in the PC version.

If it was simple an option they switched off then its possible a change to the *.ini file might be able to switch them back on.

Not all Shadows.

Anyway, Gavin "kathode" Carter have made plenty of comments regarding the shadows. First is a comment from an interview with Beyond3D

Comments from Steve "MrSmileyFaceDude" Meister.




From Developer EmilPags: (found here )

Quote from Hayt:

Even Hayt knows that everybody thinks the xbox is not having enhough "umph" to run Oblivion.

Cheers for the qoutes.

I was looking at one of the shadow threads and read something someone said



He has a point.... I wish more people had this guy's thoughts...

Just you wait, it's going to be exactly like the offical Bungie forums. People will make long winded speeches about how Bethesda betrayed them and why we should boycott them and then within days, it'll become a flame battlefield.

I don't understand why people are so touchy around an extra. It's not like they're taking away character creation or combat, or any other major factor of Oblivion. Also, if they did add that many extra shadows, it would take atleast two extra months to make.

I remember when I could sit on the forums reading on topics for hours and not realize the time had passed. Now its full of whiny trolls who talk about nothing the whole time. It is sad the devs have to read some of that stuff too.

I'm in agreement with you all - losing shadows on every object is not a big deal for me. I really do not notice shadows in real life anyway, much less a game, so the "losing immersion" has no factor for me. What is more important is what they left in - the shadows for the characters and the tree canopy.

Imagine standing in a dark corridor. Up ahead the hall turns and is illuminated by a torch. As you approach the turn, you see a shadow streaking across the wall in front of you - a creature in ambush just around the corner. This is far more important as a part of the game, than whether or not a shadow is present when you throw a ribcage around a dungeon.

Tree canopy shadows are important as well. It gives the forest a truly dark feel, as well as providing lighting effects like the light beaming down through a break in the leaves in this screenshot -> http://media.pc.ign.com/media/702/702491/img_2786411.html

Fair point, they did make sure to keep the important stuff in.

Ah the flame wars, i've heard of it, it was the first week of frost fall and may were banned, kicked, and other punishments one nowadays would find harsh. but it worked adnn eventually the Moderators and admins finnally defeated the roudy flamers... the carnage.... but yes that is the inevitable...

Oops. I meant to say How Bungie betrayed them, but this also happened of TES forums. I remember, I was like a mediator, trying to get those nuts on ChatArea to stop threatening Hayt, but it didn't help.

Good point, it is what they left in and added. I too rarely notice shadows and the only time anyone ever notices shadows is when they're playing Splinter Cell or Theif.

I dont care about the shadows either its the first thing i always turn off in a game if i need to improve performance. i'm more than happy with the shadows in the characters and the trees.

PC and Xbox360 versions are identical except editor, and depending on your PC's spec. They've made that clear several times.
The shadows are not much of an issue to me. See a small black circle on the floor when you throw an apple? Wow! Great. That added 3 months of development time.
I'm sure the rest of the game will more than make up for what's missing and there's always the future. This is only the start of next gen so don't expect perfection yet. If you want Grade A+++ Graphics over a huge, living landscape which fits in the corner of your living room, try a different game maybe?
I'm happy with Grade A++ Graphics and the best gameplay ever.

Thoughts: Why are so many people criticising devs on every TES Forum when the game isn't even out yet? They're pressured enough trying to keep you happy and you complain there's the lack of one tiny little feature such as Dual Wielding...
When the game's out, trust me, you wont care...

Wow, first post. Usually i lurk, and just read what everyone else is saying. Very rarely do i ever think i need to respond to something.

After reading the shadows debacle at TES forums, I was plainly disgusted. When I set a cup of coffee down on my desk, the first thing i pay attention to is, where i set it, not how the shadow is cast on my desk. I have noticed that the people on these forums, seem to be a bit more savvy. Most don't care about the shadows, (myself included) infact, Oblivion could be a TEXT based RPG, and it may even be fun.

After playing Daggerfall for a number of years (i was too young to get into Arena) i never stopped once while walking to a dungeon over repetitive bland landscapes, and two dimensional trees, thinking "Those jerks! there is no shadow near the root of the tree!!!". granted it was 1996, but shadows we're implemented then. I'm a fan of great gameplay, and great story telling, instead of reading a book, i play an RPG. Heaven forbid Bethesda makes an announcement the next couple of days that says..."At this time we we're unable to impliment water effects that caused tiny droplets to form around the edges of the screen." The TES Forums would implode.

Shadows or not, when this thing is finally cranked out, i'm sitting in my chair for a week, not bathing, working, or sleeping, drowing myself in pixilated goodness

You're not alone.

I find I do that often... unintentionally though



yes I think I can do that

I think Oblivion looks beautiful so why bother, If Bethesda made it look and "feel" real why put shadows on every object? It would probably break the feel of the graphics anyway making it look rather artificial. The most important thing in graphics is that it lets you dive into them and be a part of them while playing, being a 2D FPS or a pixelshader 3.0 enhanced RPG. I think Bethesda has done a better work with that than many other companies, so I can live without my spoon casting a shadow.

When I look at the screenshot of the set table which doesn't have any shadows, I hardly even notice there isn't any because it still looks amazing.

I think all of us can.

All you really have to do is look at how bland F.E.A.R. looks compared to Oblivion. F.E.A.R. has an excellent lighting/shadowing system but at the cost of a lot of other things (performance is one of them). DOn't get me wrong, F.E.A.R. is a GREAT game and it realistically depicts office buildings, but it is a bland looking game from an artistic standpoint.

In other words, Oblivion would not look nearly as good with everythign shadowed, as many of the devs have already said yet it seems to fall on deaf ears.

As long as there is good lighting, shadows arent a large problem. I would enjoy having the option later on. But right now my computer is gonna already have fun with oblivion.

HERE, HERE!!

except that my comp can just barely not meet the reqs really....

I can def. wait on the absolute perfection of shadow and light.