now that bethesda has choosen to release the vids, everyone can have a look on the forrest video and see the speetree in motion him- and herself.

the player in the video moves very slowly, but if you look close enough and focus on a tree, while the player starts walking into a slightly different direction, you can see how the leaves turn with player. billboards, bah. damn them, simple sprites they are.

now you can argue that its barely noticable, but i promise you, that the first time you enter a forest and look around faster than he does, you are going to notice it.

the speedtree engine might be great for photorealistic screenshots and good performance, but it lacks realism, and in motion, just doesnt look good.

too bad, but i guess we'll have to live with it.

Download the speedtree demo and play around with that. You'll notice it really isn't very noticeable, and you actually do have to try to see them. Thee sprites for oblivion is even on an individual leaf scale, so it'll be even less noticeable.

i struggled trying to notice it. in the end, i still have no idea what you're talking about.

besides, better preformance? good looking shots? what more do you want?
if you want realism to that high of a degree, get off your computer and go outside.

I think I agree with doomed and Fool right here.

..If the leaves weren't sprites then trust me there would be no simple way for my computer (which is the tippity top of the line, custom built, everything but 2 vid cards) to not have to chug out 3 fps to play this game in motion.

Untill the proper tech arrives I can safely say that this is the right choice that Beth made

Actually, my understanding is that the billboards are of bunches of leaves, like in the SpeedTree demo. However, they've generated each billboard image from a full 3d model of individual leaves (one polygon apiece), so the billboard images have accurate normal maps. This way, despite being a flat billboard of dozens of leaves, individual leaves will be illuminated differently by the sunlight, and change appropriately as the sun and player moves.

It's a clever way to give an illusion of individual leaves, and much better visually than the fixed polygons crossing over each other used to model leaves in earlier games. The fact that the billboards keep a fixed orientation WRT the camera isn't anywhere near as artificial-looking as looking up into an old-style tree from below and seeing the leaf-cluster polygons side-on.

All IMHO, naturally

Edit: Also, one thing I noticed in the SpeedTree demo is that when they have several billboards anchored to points in space near one another, as you move past and they rotate, they start to interpenetrate one another differently. The effect strongly masks the billboard rotate-to-face-you look, and unless you watch like a hawk the impression is that you're just seeing a confusion of leaves from different angles.

thanks for the tip - guess what, i did that a few months ago! and yes, you can notice it really good when wandering around at the demo. the demo is very bad.



as a developer myself im always looking for perfection in the technologies used and im always looking in what can be done better or what does not look all too good. and that trees might look perfect on screenshots - ingame in motion, it wont look good. i dont know it doesnt seem to me you really have to look like a hawk to realize that the sprites are always facing you - i can even notice it when looking at the preview videos. its so obivous.

at least for me. i seem to be the only one annoyed by this ... maybe im really looking to closely, but thats the way i am.

about performance: i never said somethign different, and its to be the best way to simulate a _rich_ forrest area very fast and performant. all im saying is, that i dont like who the technology looks.

however, i can live with it, and yes, i will buy this game anyway, and just try to look at a different direction while walking through woods - so people get off me, now

umm yeah it did not bug me at all. looked great to me.
but being a developer I can see how your are being your own worst critic. you want perfection and you can't get it, and you are sensitive to the thing many others are not. I can nunderstand how it bugs you more than it bugs the rest of us.

the sdeeptree demo was pretty bad... especially the groundobjects...

but i didn't notice it the times i've seen the vids, so i doubt i'll see to much of it in game.

Speedtree can create and draw millions of trees at a time. Now lets say each of these trees were created in the same way as HL2 or even Morrowind trees, any system would simply be unable to do this.

Technology is still developing, maybe in 5 years we will see trees that look similair to SpeedTree creations but without billboard leaves. But not now, deal with it, buy Oblivion and enjoy it. It doesn't look like crap.

EDIT: Sorry I was in a bad mood when I posted, so just get the point and ignore all the sarcasm and other remarks that may offend you.

Poor excuse -- edited.

Cheers
Brood

Hm, I looked at it carefully, and in slow motion. I really can't see the sprites, which is good enough for me. I especially like one part where an overhanging branch comes onto screen for a second as he passes under it. Very nice.

But I respect your criticism, I'm sure there'll be a few others who are as shook by it as you.

I hate billboard graphical items..... it drives me insane!!!

i never doubted that this solution, using winderful billboards and all, isnt performant or anything.

i know that its the best way to date to display forrests on modern day computers, and that it cannot be done as performant with true 3d objects.

however, that doesnt mean i like it or that i think it does look good. but thats only me. if you like it: hooray, how good for you. dont bash me for my opinion.

You post an opinion, we discuss it, no one has bashed you :\.

i was not referring to all (or your), but some posts. i welcome every constructive post, like that one from RobRendell (and some others).

comments like "get out if you want realism" or from the sort, i dont welcome.

thats all, case closed for me.